[ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

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[ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2
Hi all,

I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
and the RESILIENCE Research project.

Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
Here it is:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.

Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.

Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor

or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.

Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
will not work without websocket support.



Thanks,
Caleb
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Fabio Mancinelli-4
Hi Caleb,

this is ubercool. It just works!

Let's now work to make that leap to WYSIWYG and to release a nice product.

Thanks,
Fabio


On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>
> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
> Here it is:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>
> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>
> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>
> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>
> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
> will not work without websocket support.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Jean SIMARD
Also tested.  Wonderful !  It works well, even with big loads of text
pasted.  However, be careful for those who use Highlight extension which
is not compatible.
I hope other devs test it and say what they think about.
--
Jean


On ven., 2014-02-07 at 14:40 +0100, Fabio Mancinelli wrote:

> Hi Caleb,
>
> this is ubercool. It just works!
>
> Let's now work to make that leap to WYSIWYG and to release a nice product.
>
> Thanks,
> Fabio
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
> > and the RESILIENCE Research project.
> >
> > Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> > If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
> > browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
> > with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
> > time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
> > Here it is:
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> > Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
> > automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
> > code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
> > based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
> > so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
> > front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
> >
> > Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> > Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
> > it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
> > the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
> > Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
> > handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
> > to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
> > with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
> >
> > Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
> >
> > or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
> >
> > Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
> > will not work without websocket support.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caleb
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Caleb James DeLisle-2
Hi Caleb,

I’ve just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)

Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other users editing the page and color markers per user to show who’s adding what.

Note that I haven’t checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?

I guess you’ve also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be added.

Thanks
-Vincent

On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Hi all,
>  
> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>  
> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
> Here it is:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>  
> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>  
> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>  
> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>  
> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
> will not work without websocket support.
>  
>  
>  
> Thanks,
> Caleb
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Paul Libbrecht-2
Caleb,

another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump" function so that users can produce reports when testing it.

We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects; some of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could fix the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.

paul


Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Hi Caleb,
>
> I’ve just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
>
> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other users editing the page and color markers per user to show who’s adding what.
>
> Note that I haven’t checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?
>
> I guess you’ve also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be added.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>>
>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
>> Here it is:
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>>
>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>>
>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>>
>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>>
>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
>> will not work without websocket support.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caleb
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [xwiki-users] [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2
In reply to this post by Caleb James DeLisle-2
I have a correction, see below:

On 02/06/2014 12:41 AM, Caleb James DeLisle wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>
> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
> Here it is:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>
> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>
> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor

Oops: sorry about this - wrong link - I linked to the *old* wiki editor!

Here's the one:

http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RtWiki


Thanks,
Caleb


>
> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>
> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
> will not work without websocket support.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hi Vincent,

Thanks for the early support! :)
The list of users is something I'm interested in. Highlighting the text is a bit
harder because it forces us out of the textarea based editor and we have to do stuff
with a canvas which introduces a whole new set of complexity, for wiki editor I would
advise against going with this because one advantage of the wiki editor is it uses the
proven and simplistic textarea and even if the realtime infrastructure blows up
completely, it's still just a textarea which can still be edited as normal.
This is however definitely on my todo list for the WYSIWYG version.

As far as the code is concerned, the amount of actual java is small and there are
no tests at the moment but writing a test will mainly require adding a test harness
for websocket backends. As far as code style, it's not much code and getting it to
pass checkstyle should not take much time at all.

On the js side, the UI is injected through js and indeed one of the CSS selectors for
injection is fairly nasty because the UI DOM element lacks any ID so adding some ID
attributes in the templates would be nice but I disagree with labeling of all js UI
injection as "hacks" and would advise against using the UIExtension infrastructure
for this because it creates a complex and fragile mixture of server-side and
client-side code and would create a broken UI if (for example) the browser doesn't
support websocket, javascript is disabled or some error is thrown during setup.


Thanks,
Caleb




On 02/08/2014 04:39 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Caleb,
>
> I’ve just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
>
> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other users editing the page and color markers per user to show who’s adding what.
>
> Note that I haven’t checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?
>
> I guess you’ve also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be added.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>  
>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>>  
>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
>> Here it is:
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>>  
>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>>  
>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>>  
>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>>  
>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
>> will not work without websocket support.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Thanks,
>> Caleb
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2
In reply to this post by Paul Libbrecht-2
Hi Paul,

This is an interesting idea, being able to dump the core state of the engine.
I did not know that the old Jupiter based engine was able to become desynchronized,
thanks for the information.

The cjdrt engine is based on a unique design which is more similar to Bitcoin than
it is to any previous realtime engine. This design forces the clients to eventually
come to consensus on something (even if it's wrong). If you open the console, you
will see the engine is still configured to log debug messages explaining what it's
doing but unfortunately if there is a real bug which causes desync, the historical
information of where the node went wrong is not going to be available at this time
but I'll take this under consideration and if any bugs do turn out to crop up, I
will be fast-tracking this idea.

Thanks,
Caleb


On 02/08/2014 05:37 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:

> Caleb,
>
> another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump" function so that users can produce reports when testing it.
>
> We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects; some of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could fix the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.
>
> paul
>
>
> Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Caleb,
>>
>> I’ve just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
>>
>> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other users editing the page and color markers per user to show who’s adding what.
>>
>> Note that I haven’t checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?
>>
>> I guess you’ve also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be added.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of XWikiSAS Research
>>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>>>
>>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
>>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want stuff in the
>>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be messing around
>>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and configuration every
>>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
>>> Here it is:
>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
>>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension Manager will
>>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a few lines of
>>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the websocket and it's
>>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for developing Nettosphere)
>>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any changes to the
>>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>>>
>>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
>>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing but perhaps
>>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get a handle on
>>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas the previous
>>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was unable to
>>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design which is intended
>>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely on the client
>>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to different web frameworks.
>>>
>>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>>>
>>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>>>
>>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work properly on all browsers, it certainly
>>> will not work without websocket support.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caleb
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Ludovic Dubost
Hi Caleb

I gave it a try and the first impression is quite nice. We got rid of the
issues we had with the non text area used in the previous one.

Le lundi 10 février 2014, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Hi Paul,
>
> This is an interesting idea, being able to dump the core state of the
> engine.
> I did not know that the old Jupiter based engine was able to become
> desynchronized,
> thanks for the information.
>
> The cjdrt engine is based on a unique design which is more similar to
> Bitcoin than
> it is to any previous realtime engine. This design forces the clients to
> eventually
> come to consensus on something (even if it's wrong). If you open the
> console, you


On this does it mean there is no OT at all ? And we are not using Jupiter
anymore ?

Ludovic



> will see the engine is still configured to log debug messages explaining
> what it's
> doing but unfortunately if there is a real bug which causes desync, the
> historical
> information of where the node went wrong is not going to be available at
> this time
> but I'll take this under consideration and if any bugs do turn out to crop
> up, I
> will be fast-tracking this idea.
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
>
>
> On 02/08/2014 05:37 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
> > Caleb,
> >
> > another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump"
> function so that users can produce reports when testing it.
> >
> > We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's
> still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects; some
> of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of
> regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients
>  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could fix
> the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a
> stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be
> reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.
> >
> > paul
> >
> >
> > Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >
> >> Hi Caleb,
> >>
> >> I've just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
> >>
> >> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at
> least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other
> users editing the page and color markers per user to show who's adding what.
> >>
> >> Note that I haven't checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality
> code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?
> >>
> >> I guess you've also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as
> in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text
> which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be
> added.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of
> XWikiSAS Research
> >>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
> >>>
> >>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> >>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want
> stuff in the
> >>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be
> messing around
> >>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and
> configuration every
> >>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
> >>> Here it is:
> >>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> >>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension
> Manager will
> >>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a
> few lines of
> >>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the
> websocket and it's
> >>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for
> developing Nettosphere)
> >>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any
> changes to the
> >>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
> >>>
> >>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> >>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing
> but perhaps
> >>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get
> a handle on
> >>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas
> the previous
> >>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was
> unable to
> >>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design
> which is intended
> >>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely
> on the client
> >>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to
> different web frameworks.
> >>>
> >>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> >>>
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
> >>>
> >>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
> >>>
> >>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work pro



--
Sent from Mobile
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2


On 02/10/2014 05:47 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

> Hi Caleb
>
> I gave it a try and the first impression is quite nice. We got rid of the
> issues we had with the non text area used in the previous one.
>
> Le lundi 10 février 2014, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>> This is an interesting idea, being able to dump the core state of the
>> engine.
>> I did not know that the old Jupiter based engine was able to become
>> desynchronized,
>> thanks for the information.
>>
>> The cjdrt engine is based on a unique design which is more similar to
>> Bitcoin than
>> it is to any previous realtime engine. This design forces the clients to
>> eventually
>> come to consensus on something (even if it's wrong). If you open the
>> console, you
>
>
> On this does it mean there is no OT at all ? And we are not using Jupiter
> anymore ?


Technically it falls in the category of OT but whereas the previous project
used a Jupiter implementation which was spread between the server and the
client, this is a (the first ever) pure client-side implementation written
entirely by me and which should solve the problems that made WYSIWYG and
portability so difficult.


Thanks,
Caleb


>
> Ludovic
>
>
>
>> will see the engine is still configured to log debug messages explaining
>> what it's
>> doing but unfortunately if there is a real bug which causes desync, the
>> historical
>> information of where the node went wrong is not going to be available at
>> this time
>> but I'll take this under consideration and if any bugs do turn out to crop
>> up, I
>> will be fast-tracking this idea.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caleb
>>
>>
>> On 02/08/2014 05:37 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>>> Caleb,
>>>
>>> another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump"
>> function so that users can produce reports when testing it.
>>>
>>> We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's
>> still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects; some
>> of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of
>> regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients
>>  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could fix
>> the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a
>> stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be
>> reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.
>>>
>>> paul
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a
>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi Caleb,
>>>>
>>>> I've just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
>>>>
>>>> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at
>> least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of other
>> users editing the page and color markers per user to show who's adding what.
>>>>
>>>> Note that I haven't checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality
>> code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being maintained?
>>>>
>>>> I guess you've also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points (as
>> in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra text
>> which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be
>> added.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email]
>> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of
>> XWikiSAS Research
>>>>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
>>>>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want
>> stuff in the
>>>>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be
>> messing around
>>>>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and
>> configuration every
>>>>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that works.
>>>>> Here it is:
>>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
>>>>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension
>> Manager will
>>>>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a
>> few lines of
>>>>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the
>> websocket and it's
>>>>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for
>> developing Nettosphere)
>>>>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any
>> changes to the
>>>>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
>>>>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative editing
>> but perhaps
>>>>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to get
>> a handle on
>>>>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas
>> the previous
>>>>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was
>> unable to
>>>>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design
>> which is intended
>>>>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely
>> on the client
>>>>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to
>> different web frameworks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
>>>>>
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>>>>>
>>>>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work pro
>
>
>
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Ludovic Dubost
Hi Caleb,

Is the OT implementation the same as the Jupiter OT implementation or is it
a complete rewrite ?
It would be great to have some documentation about this.

Ludovic


2014-02-11 5:04 GMT+01:00 Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]>:

>
>
> On 02/10/2014 05:47 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:
> > Hi Caleb
> >
> > I gave it a try and the first impression is quite nice. We got rid of the
> > issues we had with the non text area used in the previous one.
> >
> > Le lundi 10 février 2014, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
> >
> >> Hi Paul,
> >>
> >> This is an interesting idea, being able to dump the core state of the
> >> engine.
> >> I did not know that the old Jupiter based engine was able to become
> >> desynchronized,
> >> thanks for the information.
> >>
> >> The cjdrt engine is based on a unique design which is more similar to
> >> Bitcoin than
> >> it is to any previous realtime engine. This design forces the clients to
> >> eventually
> >> come to consensus on something (even if it's wrong). If you open the
> >> console, you
> >
> >
> > On this does it mean there is no OT at all ? And we are not using Jupiter
> > anymore ?
>
>
> Technically it falls in the category of OT but whereas the previous project
> used a Jupiter implementation which was spread between the server and the
> client, this is a (the first ever) pure client-side implementation written
> entirely by me and which should solve the problems that made WYSIWYG and
> portability so difficult.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Caleb
>
>
> >
> > Ludovic
> >
> >
> >
> >> will see the engine is still configured to log debug messages explaining
> >> what it's
> >> doing but unfortunately if there is a real bug which causes desync, the
> >> historical
> >> information of where the node went wrong is not going to be available at
> >> this time
> >> but I'll take this under consideration and if any bugs do turn out to
> crop
> >> up, I
> >> will be fast-tracking this idea.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Caleb
> >>
> >>
> >> On 02/08/2014 05:37 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
> >>> Caleb,
> >>>
> >>> another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump"
> >> function so that users can produce reports when testing it.
> >>>
> >>> We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's
> >> still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects;
> some
> >> of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of
> >> regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients
> >>  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could
> fix
> >> the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a
> >> stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be
> >> reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.
> >>>
> >>> paul
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a
> >> écrit :
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Caleb,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at
> >> least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of
> other
> >> users editing the page and color markers per user to show who's adding
> what.
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that I haven't checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality
> >> code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being
> maintained?
> >>>>
> >>>> I guess you've also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points
> (as
> >> in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra
> text
> >> which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be
> >> added.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>> -Vincent
> >>>>
> >>>> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email]
> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of
> >> XWikiSAS Research
> >>>>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
> >>>>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want
> >> stuff in the
> >>>>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be
> >> messing around
> >>>>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and
> >> configuration every
> >>>>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that
> works.
> >>>>> Here it is:
> >>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
> >>>>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension
> >> Manager will
> >>>>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a
> >> few lines of
> >>>>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the
> >> websocket and it's
> >>>>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for
> >> developing Nettosphere)
> >>>>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any
> >> changes to the
> >>>>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're
> done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
> >>>>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative
> editing
> >> but perhaps
> >>>>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to
> get
> >> a handle on
> >>>>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas
> >> the previous
> >>>>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was
> >> unable to
> >>>>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design
> >> which is intended
> >>>>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely
> >> on the client
> >>>>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to
> >> different web frameworks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
> >>>>>
> >>
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
> >>>>>
> >>>>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for
> yourself.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work pro
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Ludovic Dubost
Founder and CEO
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
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Re: [ANN] Realtime Collaborative Plain WikiText Editor and WEBSOCKET!

Caleb James DeLisle-2
Juipter uses a combination of client-side and server-side components to
represent the document and runs the same code on both the client and the
server, hence the dependency on GWT.

Cjdrt uses only client side logic, the server is a dumb chat server and could
easily be replaced by a peer-to-peer network if one so desired. The actual
algorithm entirely unique to the field but is similar to a combination of the
OT algorithm used for Google Docs and the Bitcoin Blockchain. The Bitcoin
heritage provides cryptographic guarantees against some of the pathologies in
Jupiter which can cause bugs such as that which Paul was describing.

Documentation of this algorithm is the second thing on my short-term todo list.

Thanks,
Caleb



On 02/11/2014 09:07 AM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:

> Hi Caleb,
>
> Is the OT implementation the same as the Jupiter OT implementation or is it
> a complete rewrite ?
> It would be great to have some documentation about this.
>
> Ludovic
>
>
> 2014-02-11 5:04 GMT+01:00 Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]>:
>
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/2014 05:47 PM, Ludovic Dubost wrote:
>>> Hi Caleb
>>>
>>> I gave it a try and the first impression is quite nice. We got rid of the
>>> issues we had with the non text area used in the previous one.
>>>
>>> Le lundi 10 février 2014, Caleb James DeLisle <[hidden email]> a
>> écrit :
>>>
>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting idea, being able to dump the core state of the
>>>> engine.
>>>> I did not know that the old Jupiter based engine was able to become
>>>> desynchronized,
>>>> thanks for the information.
>>>>
>>>> The cjdrt engine is based on a unique design which is more similar to
>>>> Bitcoin than
>>>> it is to any previous realtime engine. This design forces the clients to
>>>> eventually
>>>> come to consensus on something (even if it's wrong). If you open the
>>>> console, you
>>>
>>>
>>> On this does it mean there is no OT at all ? And we are not using Jupiter
>>> anymore ?
>>
>>
>> Technically it falls in the category of OT but whereas the previous project
>> used a Jupiter implementation which was spread between the server and the
>> client, this is a (the first ever) pure client-side implementation written
>> entirely by me and which should solve the problems that made WYSIWYG and
>> portability so difficult.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caleb
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ludovic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> will see the engine is still configured to log debug messages explaining
>>>> what it's
>>>> doing but unfortunately if there is a real bug which causes desync, the
>>>> historical
>>>> information of where the node went wrong is not going to be available at
>>>> this time
>>>> but I'll take this under consideration and if any bugs do turn out to
>> crop
>>>> up, I
>>>> will be fast-tracking this idea.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Caleb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/08/2014 05:37 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>>>>> Caleb,
>>>>>
>>>>> another wish to make it production ready: include a good "debug dump"
>>>> function so that users can produce reports when testing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've been trying the earlier version of the real-time-editor (it's
>>>> still there actually) and had quite an amount of surprising effects;
>> some
>>>> of them may be related to paste, but not only. I had the impression of
>>>> regularly meeting a garbage state at the server, where different clients
>>>>  had different views (we were speaking in Skype). The only way I could
>> fix
>>>> the inconsistency was to restart the server. Hence the suggestion of a
>>>> stronger reporting facility so that such critical situations can be
>>>> reported about and tackled in a maturation cycle out in the wild.
>>>>>
>>>>> paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 8 févr. 2014 à 10:39, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> a
>>>> écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Caleb,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've just tried and it works well! Well done this is very cool :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now if we want to make this production-ready we would need (IMO) at
>>>> least one additional feature which is the ability to view the list of
>> other
>>>> users editing the page and color markers per user to show who's adding
>> what.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that I haven't checked the code yet. Is it some prototype-quality
>>>> code or is it following the xwiki core rules and ready for being
>> maintained?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I guess you've also used some hacks for lack of UI extension points
>> (as
>>>> in the lock screen and on the edit screen where you added some extra
>> text
>>>> which I assumed you implemented in Javascript?) which would need to be
>>>> added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6 Feb 2014 at 06:42:03, Caleb James DeLisle ([hidden email]
>>>> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm very pleased to announce two new extensions to come out of
>>>> XWikiSAS Research
>>>>>>> and the RESILIENCE Research project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Number One: WebSockets in XWiki!
>>>>>>> If you're an extension developer like me, you want events, you want
>>>> stuff in the
>>>>>>> browser to be talking to stuff in the wiki and you don't want to be
>>>> messing around
>>>>>>> with Jetty and Tomcat and all different kinds of libraries and
>>>> configuration every
>>>>>>> time you need to write an application. You just want stuff that
>> works.
>>>>>>> Here it is:
>>>>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/WebSocket
>>>>>>> Include this as a dependency for your extension and the Extension
>>>> Manager will
>>>>>>> automatically include it when users install your extension. In just a
>>>> few lines of
>>>>>>> code, your users can be chatting and collaborating through the
>>>> websocket and it's
>>>>>>> based on Netty (Special thanks to the Atmosphere project for
>>>> developing Nettosphere)
>>>>>>> so it works in all versions of Tomcat and Jetty and does not need any
>>>> changes to the
>>>>>>> front-end server, just open a port on the JVM machine and you're
>> done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Number Two: A new Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor.
>>>>>>> Indeed this is not the first attempt at Realtime Collaborative
>> editing
>>>> but perhaps
>>>>>>> it is the most academically amusing. Really this is a prototype to
>> get
>>>> a handle on
>>>>>>> the technology before we make the leap into Realtime WYSIWYG. Whereas
>>>> the previous
>>>>>>> Realtime Collaborative WikiText editor had performance issues and was
>>>> unable to
>>>>>>> handle large pasted, the new editor uses a completely novel design
>>>> which is intended
>>>>>>> to not only port well to WYSIWYG editing but is implemented entirely
>>>> on the client
>>>>>>> with the server only relaying messages, making it portable to
>>>> different web frameworks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out the Realtime Collaborative WikiText Editor here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/RealTime+Wiki+Editor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> or install it with the Extension Manager to give it a try for
>> yourself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Disclamer: This is still new and might not work pro
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
>
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