[Brainstorming] Templates exposure

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[Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi devs,

This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
- "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
entry")" in AWM
- "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"

What we have implemented so far was:
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
"Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI based on
the current location"

So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since Blog
provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template will be
preselected.

Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application the
users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the "+"
button, the app template will be preselected.
This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and rely on
the "+" button.

In the future, we could also separate templates in their own "Recommended"
category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
multiple templates are recommended for the current location. Currently we
are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.

In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our recommended
apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI for
AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.

Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown for the
"+" button.
Some input:
- a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few options
there;
- in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
- in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from the
dropdown list;
- you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we invalidate the
templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after your
initial selection;
- we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not see it
anymore.

The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order for
the templates.

In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout (2
columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
"Templates" section in the Create step.

Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of automatic
ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement more
(like the separate category I described earlier).

Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template Provider;
while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
Providers, in a future iteration.

-----

So the question is:
- Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
- What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates selection -
compared to a recommended category in the creation step?

Thanks,
Caty
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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

> On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi devs,
>
> This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> entry")" in AWM
> - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
>
> What we have implemented so far was:
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI based on
> the current location"
>
> So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since Blog
> provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template will be
> preselected.
>
> Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application the
> users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the "+"
> button, the app template will be preselected.
> This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and rely on
> the "+" button.
>
> In the future, we could also separate templates in their own "Recommended"
> category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> multiple templates are recommended for the current location. Currently we
> are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
>
> In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our recommended
> apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI for
> AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
>
> Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown for the
> "+" button.
> Some input:
> - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few options
> there;

You mean with bootstrap?  

Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with some dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.

> - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from the
> dropdown list;
> - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we invalidate the
> templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after your
> initial selection;
> - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not see it
> anymore.

It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2 different steps:
* Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
* Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page name, location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s no need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should be a one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil button to change it if need be.

> The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order for
> the templates.

Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add screen.

> In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout (2
> columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> "Templates" section in the Create step.
>
> Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of automatic
> ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement more
> (like the separate category I described earlier).
>
> Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template Provider;
> while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> Providers, in a future iteration.

My opinion:

* I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates. I think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-Addingapageorablogpost
* I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
* If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to have a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and then the other information (page name, location) as a second step
* We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).

Thanks
-Vincent

>
> -----
>
> So the question is:
> - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates selection -
> compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
>
> Thanks,
> Caty

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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> > On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> > - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> > entry")" in AWM
> > - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
> >
> > What we have implemented so far was:
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> > "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI based on
> > the current location"
> >
> > So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since
> Blog
> > provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template will
> be
> > preselected.
> >
> > Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application the
> > users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the "+"
> > button, the app template will be preselected.
> > This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and rely
> on
> > the "+" button.
> >
> > In the future, we could also separate templates in their own
> "Recommended"
> > category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> > provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> > contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> > multiple templates are recommended for the current location. Currently we
> > are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
> >
> > In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our recommended
> > apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI for
> > AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
> >
> > Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown for
> the
> > "+" button.
> > Some input:
> > - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few
> options
> > there;
>
> You mean with bootstrap?
>

There is no limitation from bootstrap, but the more options you put in a
dropdown they become unreadable. By default, in XE we have a maximum of 6+1
templates, and this number is without installing any additional
application. Without any preference, the default will be to display them
there, so we will have already 6 templates displayed. Using dropdowns will
look similar to what the "Advanced" Edit mode looks like, but for Create.

Also using dropdowns means we will not displayed anymore the template's
icon and description.


>
> Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with some
> dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.
>

Still doesn't solve the page name and location needs and if we were to add
them too, it just means that we move the Create step from its own page to a
modal.


>
> > - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> > - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> > always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from the
> > dropdown list;
> > - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we invalidate
> the
> > templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after
> your
> > initial selection;
> > - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not see it
> > anymore.
>
> It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select
> some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2
> different steps:
> * Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
> * Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page name,
> location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s no
> need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should be a
> one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil button
> to change it if need be.
>

> > The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order for
> > the templates.
>
> Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add screen.
>

This complexity reduction is debatable, since we will split it in 2
steps/screens, so we are increasing the number of clicks / steps to create
a page (instead of relying on the default/recommended template).

Thanks,
Caty


>
> > In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout (2
> > columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> > "Templates" section in the Create step.
> >
> > Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of automatic
> > ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement more
> > (like the separate category I described earlier).
> >
> > Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> > implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template Provider;
> > while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> > Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> > administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> > Providers, in a future iteration.
>
> My opinion:
>
> * I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates. I
> think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present
> information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for
> users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR
> Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.
> com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-
> Addingapageorablogpost
> * I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different
> types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
> * If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to have
> a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and then
> the other information (page name, location) as a second step
> * We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI
> implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> > -----
> >
> > So the question is:
> > - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> > - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates selection
> -
> > compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
>
>
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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Eduard Moraru
Hi,

I`d like to add/remind the fact that the create page feature is a really
important one and should be streamlined as much as possible, without having
to go through a number of steps, popups or be blocked at one stage, without
the ability to change your mind (i.e. to select a different type).

The current implementation goes along these lines, by streamlining the type
selection, when applicable. Splitting the UI in 2, or spreading in multiple
places would only add confusion and obstacles to the very common task of
creating a page.

Since a popup was mentioned now and in previous discussions: If we were to
propose the current create UI inside a popup as well (when pressing the
"Create" button, but the entire UI, not only template choice), we could see
this as an improvement as well, since the user won`t have to reload the
entire page, just the create form and it could result in yet more
"streamlining" of the task.

Thanks,
Eduard

On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Caty,
> >
> > > On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> > > - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> > > entry")" in AWM
> > > - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
> > >
> > > What we have implemented so far was:
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> > > "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI based
> on
> > > the current location"
> > >
> > > So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since
> > Blog
> > > provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template will
> > be
> > > preselected.
> > >
> > > Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application the
> > > users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the "+"
> > > button, the app template will be preselected.
> > > This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and
> rely
> > on
> > > the "+" button.
> > >
> > > In the future, we could also separate templates in their own
> > "Recommended"
> > > category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> > > provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> > > contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> > > multiple templates are recommended for the current location. Currently
> we
> > > are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
> > >
> > > In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our
> recommended
> > > apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI
> for
> > > AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
> > >
> > > Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown for
> > the
> > > "+" button.
> > > Some input:
> > > - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few
> > options
> > > there;
> >
> > You mean with bootstrap?
> >
>
> There is no limitation from bootstrap, but the more options you put in a
> dropdown they become unreadable. By default, in XE we have a maximum of 6+1
> templates, and this number is without installing any additional
> application. Without any preference, the default will be to display them
> there, so we will have already 6 templates displayed. Using dropdowns will
> look similar to what the "Advanced" Edit mode looks like, but for Create.
>
> Also using dropdowns means we will not displayed anymore the template's
> icon and description.
>
>
> >
> > Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with some
> > dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.
> >
>
> Still doesn't solve the page name and location needs and if we were to add
> them too, it just means that we move the Create step from its own page to a
> modal.
>
>
> >
> > > - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> > > - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> > > always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from
> the
> > > dropdown list;
> > > - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we invalidate
> > the
> > > templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after
> > your
> > > initial selection;
> > > - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not see
> it
> > > anymore.
> >
> > It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select
> > some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2
> > different steps:
> > * Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
> > * Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page
> name,
> > location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s no
> > need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should be a
> > one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil
> button
> > to change it if need be.
> >
>
> > > The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order
> for
> > > the templates.
> >
> > Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add
> screen.
> >
>
> This complexity reduction is debatable, since we will split it in 2
> steps/screens, so we are increasing the number of clicks / steps to create
> a page (instead of relying on the default/recommended template).
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> >
> > > In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout (2
> > > columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> > > "Templates" section in the Create step.
> > >
> > > Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of automatic
> > > ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement more
> > > (like the separate category I described earlier).
> > >
> > > Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> > > implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template Provider;
> > > while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> > > Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> > > administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> > > Providers, in a future iteration.
> >
> > My opinion:
> >
> > * I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates. I
> > think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present
> > information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for
> > users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR
> > Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.
> > com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-
> > Addingapageorablogpost
> > * I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different
> > types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
> > * If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to
> have
> > a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and then
> > the other information (page name, location) as a second step
> > * We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI
> > implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > So the question is:
> > > - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> > > - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates
> selection
> > -
> > > compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Guillaume Delhumeau
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
What about give the ability to hide the regular "create" button when an
application provides its own? Or having the ability for the developer to
select the template to use (like XWIKI-14310) without displaying the
template selector to the user at all? Or the ability to specify the link to
use for the "create" button?

In any case, I'm opposed to the drop down list on the create button. We
used to have it for create wiki / space / page. With templates, user could
also complain that they don't see create wiki. It becomes too complex.

My 2 cents,

2017-06-14 12:47 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Caty,
> >
> > > On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> > > - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> > > entry")" in AWM
> > > - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
> > >
> > > What we have implemented so far was:
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> > > "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI based
> on
> > > the current location"
> > >
> > > So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since
> > Blog
> > > provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template will
> > be
> > > preselected.
> > >
> > > Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application the
> > > users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the "+"
> > > button, the app template will be preselected.
> > > This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and
> rely
> > on
> > > the "+" button.
> > >
> > > In the future, we could also separate templates in their own
> > "Recommended"
> > > category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> > > provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> > > contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> > > multiple templates are recommended for the current location. Currently
> we
> > > are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
> > >
> > > In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our
> recommended
> > > apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI
> for
> > > AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
> > >
> > > Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown for
> > the
> > > "+" button.
> > > Some input:
> > > - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few
> > options
> > > there;
> >
> > You mean with bootstrap?
> >
>
> There is no limitation from bootstrap, but the more options you put in a
> dropdown they become unreadable. By default, in XE we have a maximum of 6+1
> templates, and this number is without installing any additional
> application. Without any preference, the default will be to display them
> there, so we will have already 6 templates displayed. Using dropdowns will
> look similar to what the "Advanced" Edit mode looks like, but for Create.
>
> Also using dropdowns means we will not displayed anymore the template's
> icon and description.
>
>
> >
> > Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with some
> > dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.
> >
>
> Still doesn't solve the page name and location needs and if we were to add
> them too, it just means that we move the Create step from its own page to a
> modal.
>
>
> >
> > > - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> > > - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> > > always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from
> the
> > > dropdown list;
> > > - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we invalidate
> > the
> > > templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after
> > your
> > > initial selection;
> > > - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not see
> it
> > > anymore.
> >
> > It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select
> > some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2
> > different steps:
> > * Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
> > * Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page
> name,
> > location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s no
> > need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should be a
> > one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil
> button
> > to change it if need be.
> >
>
> > > The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order
> for
> > > the templates.
> >
> > Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add
> screen.
> >
>
> This complexity reduction is debatable, since we will split it in 2
> steps/screens, so we are increasing the number of clicks / steps to create
> a page (instead of relying on the default/recommended template).
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> >
> > > In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout (2
> > > columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> > > "Templates" section in the Create step.
> > >
> > > Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of automatic
> > > ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement more
> > > (like the separate category I described earlier).
> > >
> > > Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> > > implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template Provider;
> > > while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> > > Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> > > administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> > > Providers, in a future iteration.
> >
> > My opinion:
> >
> > * I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates. I
> > think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present
> > information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for
> > users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR
> > Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.
> > com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-
> > Addingapageorablogpost
> > * I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different
> > types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
> > * If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to
> have
> > a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and then
> > the other information (page name, location) as a second step
> > * We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI
> > implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > >
> > > -----
> > >
> > > So the question is:
> > > - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> > > - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates
> selection
> > -
> > > compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> >
> >
>



--
Guillaume Delhumeau ([hidden email])
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Eduard Moraru
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 3:25 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I`d like to add/remind the fact that the create page feature is a really
> important one and should be streamlined as much as possible, without having
> to go through a number of steps, popups or be blocked at one stage, without
> the ability to change your mind (i.e. to select a different type).
>
> The current implementation goes along these lines, by streamlining the type
> selection, when applicable. Splitting the UI in 2, or spreading in multiple
> places would only add confusion and obstacles to the very common task of
> creating a page.
>
> Since a popup was mentioned now and in previous discussions: If we were to
> propose the current create UI inside a popup as well (when pressing the
> "Create" button, but the entire UI, not only template choice), we could see
> this as an improvement as well, since the user won`t have to reload the
> entire page, just the create form and it could result in yet more
> "streamlining" of the task.
>

Regarding modals:
- modals are helpful when keeping the context, creating a new page doesn't
need the context
- modals are not that fun on mobile
- if we made a modal for create, we won't have consistency with the other
actions: rename, copy, delete, etc.
- we need the create URL for the actions, so we will not be able to
completely switch to modals, so we will need to preserve both ways of
creating pages from modal and new page, so we introduce 2 ways, instead of
keeping just one;
- the create is not really designed for a modal, since it's not like you
are doing all the job in the modal, than close it and you're fine. You need
to be redirected to the new page in edit mode.


>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Caty,
> > >
> > > > On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> > > > - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> > > > entry")" in AWM
> > > > - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
> > > >
> > > > What we have implemented so far was:
> > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> > > > "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI
> based
> > on
> > > > the current location"
> > > >
> > > > So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since
> > > Blog
> > > > provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template
> will
> > > be
> > > > preselected.
> > > >
> > > > Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application
> the
> > > > users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the
> "+"
> > > > button, the app template will be preselected.
> > > > This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and
> > rely
> > > on
> > > > the "+" button.
> > > >
> > > > In the future, we could also separate templates in their own
> > > "Recommended"
> > > > category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> > > > provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> > > > contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> > > > multiple templates are recommended for the current location.
> Currently
> > we
> > > > are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
> > > >
> > > > In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our
> > recommended
> > > > apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI
> > for
> > > > AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown
> for
> > > the
> > > > "+" button.
> > > > Some input:
> > > > - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few
> > > options
> > > > there;
> > >
> > > You mean with bootstrap?
> > >
> >
> > There is no limitation from bootstrap, but the more options you put in a
> > dropdown they become unreadable. By default, in XE we have a maximum of
> 6+1
> > templates, and this number is without installing any additional
> > application. Without any preference, the default will be to display them
> > there, so we will have already 6 templates displayed. Using dropdowns
> will
> > look similar to what the "Advanced" Edit mode looks like, but for Create.
> >
> > Also using dropdowns means we will not displayed anymore the template's
> > icon and description.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with
> some
> > > dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.
> > >
> >
> > Still doesn't solve the page name and location needs and if we were to
> add
> > them too, it just means that we move the Create step from its own page
> to a
> > modal.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> > > > - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> > > > always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from
> > the
> > > > dropdown list;
> > > > - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we
> invalidate
> > > the
> > > > templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after
> > > your
> > > > initial selection;
> > > > - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not
> see
> > it
> > > > anymore.
> > >
> > > It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select
> > > some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2
> > > different steps:
> > > * Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
> > > * Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page
> > name,
> > > location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s
> no
> > > need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should
> be a
> > > one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil
> > button
> > > to change it if need be.
> > >
> >
> > > > The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order
> > for
> > > > the templates.
> > >
> > > Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add
> > screen.
> > >
> >
> > This complexity reduction is debatable, since we will split it in 2
> > steps/screens, so we are increasing the number of clicks / steps to
> create
> > a page (instead of relying on the default/recommended template).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout
> (2
> > > > columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> > > > "Templates" section in the Create step.
> > > >
> > > > Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of
> automatic
> > > > ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement
> more
> > > > (like the separate category I described earlier).
> > > >
> > > > Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> > > > implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template
> Provider;
> > > > while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> > > > Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> > > > administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> > > > Providers, in a future iteration.
> > >
> > > My opinion:
> > >
> > > * I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates.
> I
> > > think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present
> > > information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for
> > > users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR
> > > Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.
> > > com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-
> > > Addingapageorablogpost
> > > * I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different
> > > types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
> > > * If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to
> > have
> > > a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and
> then
> > > the other information (page name, location) as a second step
> > > * We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI
> > > implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > >
> > > > So the question is:
> > > > - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> > > > - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates
> > selection
> > > -
> > > > compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: [Brainstorming] Templates exposure

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Guillaume Delhumeau
On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Guillaume Delhumeau <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> What about give the ability to hide the regular "create" button when an
> application provides its own?


Well that's what I was trying to avoid. I would like us to have a single
create button and rely on it. Users will not need to find the create in
each application.
I want to remove the custom buttons and rely on a single button that
recommends a template.


> Or having the ability for the developer to
> select the template to use (like XWIKI-14310) without displaying the
> template selector to the user at all?


That is an approach, but depends on how permissive we want to be. The user
might want to change the selection.
Also doesn't really work for apps that provide multiple templates, which
one do you select?



> Or the ability to specify the link to
> use for the "create" button?
>

That would need a new implementation, so depends if we really need it.

Thanks,
Caty


> In any case, I'm opposed to the drop down list on the create button. We
> used to have it for create wiki / space / page. With templates, user could
> also complain that they don't see create wiki. It becomes too complex.
>
> My 2 cents,
>
> 2017-06-14 12:47 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>:
>
> > On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Caty,
> > >
> > > > On 14 Jun 2017, at 12:04, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > This roadmap we had 2 suggestions:
> > > > - "Find a way of avoiding to have 2 "Add" entries ("+" and "Add new
> > > > entry")" in AWM
> > > > - "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select some templates"
> > > >
> > > > What we have implemented so far was:
> > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14310
> > > > "Propose and pre-select "recommended" templates in the create UI
> based
> > on
> > > > the current location"
> > > >
> > > > So now, if you go to the Blog app and create on the "+" button, since
> > > Blog
> > > > provides a template with a create restriction, the "Blog" template
> will
> > > be
> > > > preselected.
> > > >
> > > > Also, AWM has the option to create a template for each application
> the
> > > > users create. So after you created your app with AWM and go to the
> "+"
> > > > button, the app template will be preselected.
> > > > This will allow us in the future to remove the AWM actions area and
> > rely
> > > on
> > > > the "+" button.
> > > >
> > > > In the future, we could also separate templates in their own
> > > "Recommended"
> > > > category. A separate category will be necessary for applications that
> > > > provide multiple related templates (like Forum for example that will
> > > > contain the Forum, Topic templates) or in the more general case when
> > > > multiple templates are recommended for the current location.
> Currently
> > we
> > > > are doing only sorting and preselecting the first one.
> > > >
> > > > In terms of implementation we just need to make sure all our
> > recommended
> > > > apps provide template providers and after that we could change the UI
> > for
> > > > AWM and remove the "Add" action from the actions area.
> > > >
> > > > Now, I want to ask your opinion on the suggestion to add a dropdown
> for
> > > the
> > > > "+" button.
> > > > Some input:
> > > > - a dropdown will not be scalable: you cannot have more than a few
> > > options
> > > > there;
> > >
> > > You mean with bootstrap?
> > >
> >
> > There is no limitation from bootstrap, but the more options you put in a
> > dropdown they become unreadable. By default, in XE we have a maximum of
> 6+1
> > templates, and this number is without installing any additional
> > application. Without any preference, the default will be to display them
> > there, so we will have already 6 templates displayed. Using dropdowns
> will
> > look similar to what the "Advanced" Edit mode looks like, but for Create.
> >
> > Also using dropdowns means we will not displayed anymore the template's
> > icon and description.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Because otherwise we could open some popup when clicking the + with
> some
> > > dialog box allowing to search and choose a template.
> > >
> >
> > Still doesn't solve the page name and location needs and if we were to
> add
> > them too, it just means that we move the Create step from its own page
> to a
> > modal.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > - in a dropdown you cannot specify the page name;
> > > > - in the dropdown you cannot change or specify another location - you
> > > > always need to go to the page first and after choose a template from
> > the
> > > > dropdown list;
> > > > - you will only see an admin selection of templates - so we
> invalidate
> > > the
> > > > templates filtering and you cannot even choose another template after
> > > your
> > > > initial selection;
> > > > - we make the current create step deprecated, since users will not
> see
> > it
> > > > anymore.
> > >
> > > It’s Ludovic who suggested "Drop down on "+" Menu + Admin UI to select
> > > some templates” and AFAIU his idea is to separate the Add action into 2
> > > different steps:
> > > * Step 1: select the template first, directly when click on the +
> > > * Step 2: you still get the current Add UI where you choose the page
> > name,
> > > location, etc but you don’t see the template part anymore (ie there’s
> no
> > > need to have a 2 columns view anymore). Note that maybe there should
> be a
> > > one liner with the name/icon of the selected template with a pencil
> > button
> > > to change it if need be.
> > >
> >
> > > > The main reason of this request was to increase visibility and order
> > for
> > > > the templates.
> > >
> > > Another reason could be to reduce the complexity of the current Add
> > screen.
> > >
> >
> > This complexity reduction is debatable, since we will split it in 2
> > steps/screens, so we are increasing the number of clicks / steps to
> create
> > a page (instead of relying on the default/recommended template).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > In the user recording sessions I've seen and with the current layout
> (2
> > > > columns, templates on right) users don't have problems seeing the
> > > > "Templates" section in the Create step.
> > > >
> > > > Now, for the ordering / selection - the current mechanism of
> automatic
> > > > ordering is a step in that direction - but sure we could implement
> more
> > > > (like the separate category I described earlier).
> > > >
> > > > Another difference between what was asked and what was currently
> > > > implemented is that now the selection comes from the Template
> Provider;
> > > > while the idea was to allow the Administrator to select the displayed
> > > > Templates. With the current implementation we can still create an
> > > > administration UI to select them and save the changes in the Template
> > > > Providers, in a future iteration.
> > >
> > > My opinion:
> > >
> > > * I don’t understand why this would increase visibility for templates.
> I
> > > think that’s just a matter of deciding on the order of how we present
> > > information on the Create page UI. We need to decide if it’s better for
> > > users to choose first page name + location or template first. FTR
> > > Confluence chooses the type first too: https://confluence.atlassian.
> > > com/conf56/creating-content-658736830.html#CreatingContent-
> > > Addingapageorablogpost
> > > * I think it feels a bit weird to have a 2 steps process with different
> > > types of UIs (dropdown first and then add page dialog)
> > > * If we think that the Add page UI is too complex, one solution is to
> > have
> > > a 2 steps wizard where users start selecting the type (Template) and
> then
> > > the other information (page name, location) as a second step
> > > * We need to decide if we wish to keep the current Create UI
> > > implementation or instead use a popup overlay wizard (with 2 steps).
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > >
> > > > So the question is:
> > > > - Do you have other ideas on how we could solve the requests?
> > > > - What do you think about having a dropdown with the templates
> > selection
> > > -
> > > > compared to a recommended category in the creation step?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Delhumeau ([hidden email])
> Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
> Committer on the XWiki.org project
>