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Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter

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Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter

Douglas Landau
Folks,

I found the attachment porter but don’t know how to invoke it.  I am reading and re-reading the page about it, the page that has the download button.  But nowhere does it say how to use it.  

Now, I apologize sincerely for the dumb question.   But I am getting an error for every one of 15 or so import lines!   It -must- be necessary to set some CLASSPATH or something or specify some JARs on the groovy commandline or -some-thing.... it seems like there -must- be something here that everyone thinks is so obvious that it goes without saying...

Could someone please take pity on me and send me their command line that they used to run this sucker?

Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-----------------------
[root@dwswiki10 xwiki]# groovy p.groovy
/bin/build-classpath: Could not find ../../jvm/java/lib Java extension for this JVM
/bin/build-classpath: error: Some specified jars were not found
org.codehaus.groovy.control.MultipleCompilationErrorsException: startup failed:
/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 6: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.store.XWikiAttachmentStoreInterface
 @ line 6, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.store.XWikiAttachmentStoreInterface;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 8: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.store.AttachmentVersioningStore
 @ line 8, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.store.AttachmentVersioningStore;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 15: unable to resolve class org.xwiki.store.filesystem.internal.FilesystemStoreTools
 @ line 15, column 1.
   import org.xwiki.store.filesystem.internal.FilesystemStoreTools;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 12: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.XWikiContext
 @ line 12, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.XWikiContext;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 13: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.XWiki
 @ line 13, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.XWiki;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 16: unable to resolve class org.apache.commons.lang.exception.ExceptionUtils
 @ line 16, column 1.
   import org.apache.commons.lang.exception.ExceptionUtils;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 2: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.doc.XWikiAttachment
 @ line 2, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.doc.XWikiAttachment;
   ^

/data/xwiki/p.groovy: 4: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.doc.DeletedAttachment
 @ line 4, column 1.
   import com.xpn.xwiki.doc.DeletedAttachment;
   ^

...
...
...
...
...


 

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Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter

vmassol
Administrator
Hi,

I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 23 Mar 2017, at 05:41, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I found the attachment porter but don’t know how to invoke it.  I am reading and re-reading the page about it, the page that has the download button.  But nowhere does it say how to use it.  
>
> Now, I apologize sincerely for the dumb question.   But I am getting an error for every one of 15 or so import lines!   It -must- be necessary to set some CLASSPATH or something or specify some JARs on the groovy commandline or -some-thing.... it seems like there -must- be something here that everyone thinks is so obvious that it goes without saying...
>
> Could someone please take pity on me and send me their command line that they used to run this sucker?
>
> Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> -----------------------
> [root@dwswiki10 xwiki]# groovy p.groovy
> /bin/build-classpath: Could not find ../../jvm/java/lib Java extension for this JVM
> /bin/build-classpath: error: Some specified jars were not found
> org.codehaus.groovy.control.MultipleCompilationErrorsException: startup failed:
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 6: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.store.XWikiAttachmentStoreInterface
> @ line 6, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.store.XWikiAttachmentStoreInterface;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 8: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.store.AttachmentVersioningStore
> @ line 8, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.store.AttachmentVersioningStore;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 15: unable to resolve class org.xwiki.store.filesystem.internal.FilesystemStoreTools
> @ line 15, column 1.
>   import org.xwiki.store.filesystem.internal.FilesystemStoreTools;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 12: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.XWikiContext
> @ line 12, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.XWikiContext;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 13: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.XWiki
> @ line 13, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.XWiki;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 16: unable to resolve class org.apache.commons.lang.exception.ExceptionUtils
> @ line 16, column 1.
>   import org.apache.commons.lang.exception.ExceptionUtils;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 2: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.doc.XWikiAttachment
> @ line 2, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.doc.XWikiAttachment;
>   ^
>
> /data/xwiki/p.groovy: 4: unable to resolve class com.xpn.xwiki.doc.DeletedAttachment
> @ line 4, column 1.
>   import com.xpn.xwiki.doc.DeletedAttachment;
>   ^
>
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
> ...
>
>
>
>
> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].

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Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter

Douglas Landau

>I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?

Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.

I followed step 1:
Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
I followed step 2:
 Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
I read step 3:
Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.

I read step 4:
Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>

I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.

That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.

dkl

The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
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Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter

Craig Wright
XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)

I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running, but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.

Be well,
Craig


> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>
> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>
> I followed step 1:
> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
> I followed step 2:
> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
> I read step 3:
> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>
> I read step 4:
> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>
> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>
> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>
> dkl
>
> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].

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Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Craig,

> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)

Waiting for it! ;)

> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,

We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.

> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.

Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.

Thanks
-Vincent

> Be well,
> Craig
>
>
>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>
>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>
>> I followed step 1:
>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>> I followed step 2:
>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>> I read step 3:
>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>
>> I read step 4:
>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>
>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>
>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>
>> dkl
>>
>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Craig Wright
> Waiting for it! ;)

I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container...

In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.

Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.

Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.

Thanks!
Craig

> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Craig,
>
>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>
> Waiting for it! ;)
>
>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>
> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>
>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>
> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Be well,
>> Craig
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>
>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>
>>> I followed step 1:
>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>> I followed step 2:
>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>> I read step 3:
>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>
>>> I read step 4:
>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>
>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>
>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>
>>> dkl
>>>
>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Craig Wright
Hi Vincent,

As long as I have your ear, here is my largest frustration from a user perspective.

The current notifications email are not very useful from a non-technical user perspective. Even as a technical person who looks at diffs all day long, the emails are very difficult to parse. There are two changes that need to happen:

1. The ability to receive a “pretty” email whenever a comment is added to a watched page. ***this is the most critical
2. The ability to receive a daily “pretty” email of all changes to all pages.

Underlying assumptions:

1. The consumers of these emails are normal humans who are not trained at reading diffs.
2. Comments should be handled as real-time communication. If someone comments on a page I want to know now. Currently, I do not receive a notification on a comment, I have to dig that fact out of the diff of the daily page change email.

If you want I can turn this into a JIRA ticket. I have also been considering digging into the extension system to see if I could fix it myself.

Thanks for listening!

Be well,
Craig

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Waiting for it! ;)
>
> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container...
>
> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>
> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>
> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.
>
> Thanks!
> Craig
>
>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>
>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>
>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>
>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>>
>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>
>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Be well,
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>>
>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>> I read step 3:
>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>
>>>> I read step 4:
>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>
>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>
>>>> dkl
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Craig Wright
Final email:

http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29 <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29>

:D

-C

> On Apr 5, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Vincent,
>
> As long as I have your ear, here is my largest frustration from a user perspective.
>
> The current notifications email are not very useful from a non-technical user perspective. Even as a technical person who looks at diffs all day long, the emails are very difficult to parse. There are two changes that need to happen:
>
> 1. The ability to receive a “pretty” email whenever a comment is added to a watched page. ***this is the most critical
> 2. The ability to receive a daily “pretty” email of all changes to all pages.
>
> Underlying assumptions:
>
> 1. The consumers of these emails are normal humans who are not trained at reading diffs.
> 2. Comments should be handled as real-time communication. If someone comments on a page I want to know now. Currently, I do not receive a notification on a comment, I have to dig that fact out of the diff of the daily page change email.
>
> If you want I can turn this into a JIRA ticket. I have also been considering digging into the extension system to see if I could fix it myself.
>
> Thanks for listening!
>
> Be well,
> Craig
>
>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>
>> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container...
>>
>> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>>
>> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>>
>> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Craig,
>>>
>>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>>
>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>
>>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>>
>>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>>>
>>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>>
>>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Be well,
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>>> I read step 3:
>>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read step 4:
>>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> dkl
>>>>>
>>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Craig Wright
Hi Craig,

> On 5 Apr 2017, at 23:47, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Waiting for it! ;)
>
> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container…

:)

> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.

Yeah we’re not very good on that topic and we need user’s help actually. The XWiki developers are not really using/setting up XWiki themselves (or just on their computers with some basic config). Thus they don’t know the advanced config options. Even xwiki.org’s system config is setup by Admins from the XWiki SAS company and not by xwiki.org developers. And XWiki SAS is using Apache, not Nginx.

Thus having user’s help to document all possible configs would really help.

> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.

I’ve just fixed this one! (I hope). I’ve added the info in 2 places:
- home page of snippets.xwiki.org
- inside each snippet you now have an installation instructions section.

Let me know if it’s good enough or if there’s something moretodo.

Thanks for the feedback!
-Vincent

>
> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.
>
> Thanks!
> Craig
>
>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>
>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>
>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>
>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>>
>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>
>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Be well,
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>>
>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>> I read step 3:
>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>
>>>> I read step 4:
>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>
>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>>
>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>
>>>> dkl
>>>>
>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Eduard Moraru
In reply to this post by Craig Wright
Hi, Craig,

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
>
> As long as I have your ear, here is my largest frustration from a user
> perspective.
>
> The current notifications email are not very useful from a non-technical
> user perspective. Even as a technical person who looks at diffs all day
> long, the emails are very difficult to parse. There are two changes that
> need to happen:
>
> 1. The ability to receive a “pretty” email whenever a comment is added to
> a watched page. ***this is the most critical
>

We already have something in that direction.

Have a look over the Realtime Watchlist feature:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Watchlist%20Application#HRealtimenotifications

It`s disabled by default, but you can enable it and let us know what you
think.

Thanks,
Eduard

2. The ability to receive a daily “pretty” email of all changes to all

> pages.
>
> Underlying assumptions:
>
> 1. The consumers of these emails are normal humans who are not trained at
> reading diffs.
> 2. Comments should be handled as real-time communication. If someone
> comments on a page I want to know now. Currently, I do not receive a
> notification on a comment, I have to dig that fact out of the diff of the
> daily page change email.
>
> If you want I can turn this into a JIRA ticket. I have also been
> considering digging into the extension system to see if I could fix it
> myself.
>
> Thanks for listening!
>
> Be well,
> Craig
>
> > On Apr 5, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Waiting for it! ;)
> >
> > I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like
> three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy
> that docker container...
> >
> > In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I
> would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not
> completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web
> platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some
> clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a
> AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge
> too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have
> some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be
> forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx
> is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
> >
> > Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in
> wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing
> your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do.
> Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it
> is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
> >
> > Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with
> the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all
> things I could change or improve with a little time.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Craig
> >
> >> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Craig,
> >>
> >>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of
> docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like
> Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to
> learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that
> the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies
> can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install
> XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
> >>
> >> Waiting for it! ;)
> >>
> >>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
> >>
> >> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those
> are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case
> they’re not.
> >>
> >>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t
> beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the
> containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
> >>
> >> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there
> are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are
> looking for.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> Be well,
> >>> Craig
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment
> ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet
> that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely
> unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this
> was one.
> >>>>
> >>>> I followed step 1:
> >>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
> >>>> I followed step 2:
> >>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
> >>>> I read step 3:
> >>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
> >>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the
> filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in
> most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the
> database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they
> will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains
> no facility to delete entries from the database.
> >>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error
> message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and
> humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads
> from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
> >>>>
> >>>> I read step 4:
> >>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
> >>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment
> is broken, ... <snip>
> >>>>
> >>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is
> too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it
> actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's
> comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on
> the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]")
> which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.
> I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With
> reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating
> expewience.
> >>>>
> >>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not
> complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it
> and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
> >>>>
> >>>> dkl
> >>>>
> >>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West
> Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
> >>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named
> above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
> >>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> >>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by
> reply email and destroy all copies of the original
> >>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an
> email to [hidden email].
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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|  
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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Craig Wright

> Have a look over the Realtime Watchlist feature:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Watchlist%20Application#HRealtimenotifications


Very interesting, I’ll take a look at it. Thanks for the link.

-Craig


> On Apr 6, 2017, at 4:43 AM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi, Craig,
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> As long as I have your ear, here is my largest frustration from a user
>> perspective.
>>
>> The current notifications email are not very useful from a non-technical
>> user perspective. Even as a technical person who looks at diffs all day
>> long, the emails are very difficult to parse. There are two changes that
>> need to happen:
>>
>> 1. The ability to receive a “pretty” email whenever a comment is added to
>> a watched page. ***this is the most critical
>>
>
> We already have something in that direction.
>
> Have a look over the Realtime Watchlist feature:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Watchlist%20Application#HRealtimenotifications
>
> It`s disabled by default, but you can enable it and let us know what you
> think.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> 2. The ability to receive a daily “pretty” email of all changes to all
>> pages.
>>
>> Underlying assumptions:
>>
>> 1. The consumers of these emails are normal humans who are not trained at
>> reading diffs.
>> 2. Comments should be handled as real-time communication. If someone
>> comments on a page I want to know now. Currently, I do not receive a
>> notification on a comment, I have to dig that fact out of the diff of the
>> daily page change email.
>>
>> If you want I can turn this into a JIRA ticket. I have also been
>> considering digging into the extension system to see if I could fix it
>> myself.
>>
>> Thanks for listening!
>>
>> Be well,
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>
>>> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like
>> three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy
>> that docker container...
>>>
>>> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I
>> would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not
>> completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web
>> platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some
>> clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a
>> AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge
>> too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have
>> some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be
>> forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx
>> is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>>>
>>> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in
>> wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing
>> your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do.
>> Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it
>> is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>>>
>>> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with
>> the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all
>> things I could change or improve with a little time.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Craig,
>>>>
>>>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of
>> docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like
>> Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to
>> learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that
>> the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies
>> can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install
>> XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>>
>>>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>>>
>>>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those
>> are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case
>> they’re not.
>>>>
>>>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t
>> beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the
>> containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there
>> are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are
>> looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> Be well,
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment
>> ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet
>> that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely
>> unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this
>> was one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>>>> I read step 3:
>>>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the
>> filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in
>> most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the
>> database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they
>> will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains
>> no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error
>> message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and
>> humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads
>> from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read step 4:
>>>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment
>> is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is
>> too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it
>> actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's
>> comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on
>> the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]")
>> which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.
>> I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With
>> reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating
>> expewience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not
>> complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it
>> and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dkl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West
>> Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named
>> above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
>> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by
>> reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an
>> email to [hidden email].
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

Craig Wright
In reply to this post by vmassol
> I’ve just fixed this one! (I hope). I’ve added the info in 2 places:
> - home page of snippets.xwiki.org
> - inside each snippet you now have an installation instructions section.

This is perfect! Simple but very helpful.

Let me know if you have any feedback on http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29 <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29>.

Thanks,
Craig


> On Apr 6, 2017, at 2:11 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Craig,
>
>> On 5 Apr 2017, at 23:47, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>
>> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container…
>
> :)
>
>> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>
> Yeah we’re not very good on that topic and we need user’s help actually. The XWiki developers are not really using/setting up XWiki themselves (or just on their computers with some basic config). Thus they don’t know the advanced config options. Even xwiki.org’s system config is setup by Admins from the XWiki SAS company and not by xwiki.org developers. And XWiki SAS is using Apache, not Nginx.
>
> Thus having user’s help to document all possible configs would really help.
>
>> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>
> I’ve just fixed this one! (I hope). I’ve added the info in 2 places:
> - home page of snippets.xwiki.org
> - inside each snippet you now have an installation instructions section.
>
> Let me know if it’s good enough or if there’s something moretodo.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
> -Vincent
>
>>
>> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Craig,
>>>
>>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>>
>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>
>>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>>
>>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>>>
>>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>>
>>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Be well,
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>>>
>>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>>> I read step 3:
>>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I read step 4:
>>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> dkl
>>>>>
>>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Craig,

> On 6 Apr 2017, at 19:34, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I’ve just fixed this one! (I hope). I’ve added the info in 2 places:
>> - home page of snippets.xwiki.org
>> - inside each snippet you now have an installation instructions section.
>
> This is perfect! Simple but very helpful.
>
> Let me know if you have any feedback on http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29 <http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/InstallationTomcat#HUsingNginxasareverse-proxyforTomcat28http2Fhttps29>.

This is awesome, thanks for your contribution! :)

I cannot validate the content though but I’m sure future nginx+xwiki users will like this help.

Thanks
-Vincent

>
> Thanks,
> Craig
>
>
>> On Apr 6, 2017, at 2:11 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>>> On 5 Apr 2017, at 23:47, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>
>>> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy that docker container…
>>
>> :)
>>
>>> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>>
>> Yeah we’re not very good on that topic and we need user’s help actually. The XWiki developers are not really using/setting up XWiki themselves (or just on their computers with some basic config). Thus they don’t know the advanced config options. Even xwiki.org’s system config is setup by Admins from the XWiki SAS company and not by xwiki.org developers. And XWiki SAS is using Apache, not Nginx.
>>
>> Thus having user’s help to document all possible configs would really help.
>>
>>> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do. Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>>
>> I’ve just fixed this one! (I hope). I’ve added the info in 2 places:
>> - home page of snippets.xwiki.org
>> - inside each snippet you now have an installation instructions section.
>>
>> Let me know if it’s good enough or if there’s something moretodo.
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback!
>> -Vincent
>>
>>>
>>> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all things I could change or improve with a little time.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Craig,
>>>>
>>>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>>
>>>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>>>
>>>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case they’re not.
>>>>
>>>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> Be well,
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this was one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>>>> I read step 3:
>>>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read step 4:
>>>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]") which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.  I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating expewience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dkl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an email to [hidden email].
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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Re: Feedback about XWiki (was Re: Help Request! Running the Attachment Porter)

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Eduard Moraru
Hi Craig,

> On 6 Apr 2017, at 13:43, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi, Craig,
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 3:58 AM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> As long as I have your ear, here is my largest frustration from a user
>> perspective.
>>
>> The current notifications email are not very useful from a non-technical
>> user perspective. Even as a technical person who looks at diffs all day
>> long, the emails are very difficult to parse. There are two changes that
>> need to happen:
>>
>> 1. The ability to receive a “pretty” email whenever a comment is added to
>> a watched page. ***this is the most critical
>>
>
> We already have something in that direction.
>
> Have a look over the Realtime Watchlist feature:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Watchlist%20Application#HRealtimenotifications

Also note (in case you missed it) that you can fully customize the email template used:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Watchlist%20Application#HAdministrators:CustomizingtheWatchListemailtemplate

Thanks
-Vincent

> It`s disabled by default, but you can enable it and let us know what you
> think.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> 2. The ability to receive a daily “pretty” email of all changes to all
>> pages.
>>
>> Underlying assumptions:
>>
>> 1. The consumers of these emails are normal humans who are not trained at
>> reading diffs.
>> 2. Comments should be handled as real-time communication. If someone
>> comments on a page I want to know now. Currently, I do not receive a
>> notification on a comment, I have to dig that fact out of the diff of the
>> daily page change email.
>>
>> If you want I can turn this into a JIRA ticket. I have also been
>> considering digging into the extension system to see if I could fix it
>> myself.
>>
>> Thanks for listening!
>>
>> Be well,
>> Craig
>>
>>> On Apr 5, 2017, at 2:47 PM, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>
>>> I swear the tab with that page has been open in my browser for like
>> three weeks. I’ll make it happen eventually! Probably right after I deploy
>> that docker container...
>>>
>>> In terms of frustrations, as a self-hoster, it is mostly around what I
>> would call “assumptions.” As a php/python guy who has largely (but not
>> completely) managed to avoid Java, there is a lot about running Java web
>> platforms I just don’t know. The docs are great in that there are some
>> clear guidelines as to “best standard configuration” which helped me pick a
>> AWS machine (m3.small) and whatnot, but there is a lot of assumed knowledge
>> too. The nginx+ssl example is a good one; since Apache+Tomcat seems to have
>> some built-in conveniences, I had to figure out what headers needed to be
>> forwarded / rewritten to get it to work with nginx. And it’s not like nginx
>> is some niche reverse-proxy; it is pretty popular.
>>>
>>> Snippets is another good example. Once you figure out “oh these run in
>> wiki pages,” it makes sense. Until you figure that out, you are tearing
>> your hair out trying to understand what the hell you are supposed to do.
>> Again, the assumption is the user has at least that basic knowledge but it
>> is not actually in the docs anywhere that comes up in a google search.
>>>
>>> Overall though, I can’t really complain. As I get more experienced with
>> the software and understand the docs layout a bit better, these are all
>> things I could change or improve with a little time.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Craig
>>>
>>>> On Mar 31, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Craig,
>>>>
>>>>> On 31 Mar 2017, at 21:08, Craig Wright <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> XWiki is a very large, feature-rich product. While there are a lot of
>> docs, they have clearly grown organically over time. Areas of the docs like
>> Snippets assume a familiarity with the system that is not available to
>> learn from the docs site itself. That’s the bad news; the good news is that
>> the docs are mostly editable by users and so it is a place where us newbies
>> can contribute. In fact I owe them an update on how to install
>> XWiki+nginx+SSL. :)
>>>>
>>>> Waiting for it! ;)
>>>>
>>>>> I have had a good number of frustrations getting things running,
>>>>
>>>> We’re keen to improve XWiki constantly and I’d love to know what those
>> are to see whether we’re working on them or to add them to our todo in case
>> they’re not.
>>>>
>>>>> but I have to say compared to other wiki systems I’ve used, you can’t
>> beat the features at the price. Things may get much easier with the
>> containerized deployment, I haven’t tried that yet.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know how the xwiki docker image works for you. I’m sure there
>> are plenty of features to add but would be great to know what users are
>> looking for.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> Be well,
>>>>> Craig
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 3:20 PM, Douglas Landau <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve never used this code but shouldn’t it execute in a wiki page?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Vincent.  I finally figured out from Craig Wright's comment
>> ("FOR THOSE NEW TO XWIKI") that a)there is such a thing [as a code snippet
>> that runs in a page] and that this is one of them.  Being completely
>> unaware of the existence of snippets, I would never have guessed that this
>> was one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I followed step 1:
>>>>>> Step 1: Switch to Filesystem attachments.
>>>>>> I followed step 2:
>>>>>> Step 2: Add a new directory to your backup routine.
>>>>>> I read step 3:
>>>>>> Step 3: Copy attachments from database to filesystem.
>>>>>> Now you are ready to copy the data over from your database to the
>> filesystem. It is prudent to leave the attachments in the database since in
>> most situations the attachment data is not bothersome just sitting in the
>> database (The only risk of attachments left in the database is that they
>> will bloat the size of the database files). As such, this script contains
>> no facility to delete entries from the database.
>>>>>> If anything goes wrong in this function, it will fail with an error
>> message and you should get the stack trace, keep it to confuse and
>> humiliate the developer with. No harm should be done since this only loads
>> from the database and only saves to the filesystem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I read step 4:
>>>>>> Step 4: Make sure everything is working.
>>>>>> Check to make sure your attachments are still there, if an attachment
>> is broken, ... <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I felt quite sure that how to run the thing should be in step 3; 2 is
>> too soon, and 4 is too late.  But how?  Nowhere in the text does it
>> actually say how to run the thing!!!   So I googled looking for other's
>> comments on forums, etc.  I YUM installed Groovy and tried running it on
>> the commandline.  I removed the leading and trailing lines ("[[grovy]]")
>> which caused errors.  I got class not found errors.  I read step 3 again.
>> I started reading the details of CLASSPATH and /bin/build-classpath.  With
>> reluctance and just a little resentment.   It was an extwemewy fwustwating
>> expewience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, I realize it the mailing list is for questions, not
>> complaints, and so apologize to all for this complaint, and will take it
>> and my other such observations to Jira and log them as bugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> dkl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The information contained in this transmission may contain West
>> Marine proprietary, confidential and/or privileged
>>>>>> information.  It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named
>> above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>>>>> hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or
>> duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited.
>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by
>> reply email and destroy all copies of the original
>>>>>> message. To reply to our email administrator directly, please send an
>> email to [hidden email].

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