Latex html in editor for math formulas?

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Latex html in editor for math formulas?

alan-at-iaea
Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Or how can I use formulas, maybe you know a good latex html live editor.


Since xwiki is more and more used by universities and labs….it would be nice to have something, if there already isnt?

Thanx,
alan


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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

rrodrigueznt
[hidden email] wrote:
Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo


-- 
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Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

alan-at-iaea
Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
 
I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something in-editor is developed
Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
 
That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody i have a solution :-).
 
Alan
 
 
 


From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

[hidden email] wrote:

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo


-- 
Ricardo Rodríguez
Your EPEC Network ICT Team

This email message is intended only for the use of the named recipient. Information contained in this email message and its attachments may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose this communication to others. Also please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system.


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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Paul Libbrecht
Alan, Ricardo,

what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.

The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No own macros though.
That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but which, often, can do mathml for example).

We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a jira issue that contains the jar.

It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though... i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on the dvi inclusion in the print channel.

Would there be a better space to publish these ?
we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the XWiki folks team has a better place?

paul




Le 20 févr. 08 à 10:17, <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
 
I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something in-editor is developed
Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
 
That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody i have a solution :-).
 
Alan
 
 
 


From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

[hidden email] wrote:

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo



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Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

vmassol
Administrator

On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:

Alan, Ricardo,

what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.

The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No own macros though.
That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but which, often, can do mathml for example).

We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a jira issue that contains the jar.

It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though... i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on the dvi inclusion in the print channel.

Would there be a better space to publish these ?
we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the XWiki folks team has a better place?

1) For publishing the jar, the best is probably the xwiki code zone
2) For the source code, it really depends on you. You have 3 options I can think of:

a) a project wherever you want (sourceforge, libresource, etc)

b) a project on the XWiki Forge. This is not advertised yet but we have a XWiki Forge for hosting projects related to XWiki. We give those projects a SVN repo, a wiki (as in http://<project name>.xwiki.org), a JIRA project, mailing lists, etc. Note that since the machines and admin are currently owned and done by XWiki SAS, it's its decision to decide what project get in. This project would definitely fit in.

Since maybe creating a project just for one macro would be a bit too much, we could create a general purpose project for hosting outside contributions (plugins, macros, applications). Actually I think this would be a very good idea. It would be very open and anyone asking would get commit access to it.

c) you're interested in participating to the xwiki development and in this case we include your macro in the xwiki source code and we vote you in as a committer to improve and support it (of course that would be after seeing the source code and ensuring it complies with the xwiki coding conventions, etc).

Let us know what you'd prefer.

Thanks
-Vincent

Le 20 févr. 08 à 10:17, <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
 
I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something in-editor is developed
Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
 
That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody i have a solution :-).
 
Alan
 
 
 


From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

[hidden email] wrote:

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo


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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

rrodrigueznt
In reply to this post by Paul Libbrecht
Paul Libbrecht wrote:

> Alan, Ricardo,
>
> what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a
> javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.
>
> The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No
> own macros though.
> That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but
> which, often, can do mathml for example).
>
> We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a
> jira issue that contains the jar.
>
> It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though...
> i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which
> is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on
> the dvi inclusion in the print channel.
>
> Would there be a better space to publish these ?
> we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the XWiki
> folks team has a better place?
>
> paul

Hi Paul,

These are great news! Even though we are still far from being able to
contribute in the source side, I would like to say that being able to
write "nice" formulae is a key feature for us. We have started the "TeX
way" this year, so it won't be hard to integrate this new utility in our
workflow.

As per where to place this, is it not XWiki Subversion repository the
perfect place for developing this "plugin/extension/IDontKnowExactlyWhat"?

I'm sure you have already visited this place...

http://fisheye2.cenqua.com/browse/xwiki/

Cheers,

Ricardo

--
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Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means there would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:

1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a committer
2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a macro he has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where he/she can contribute with others on it, then this special forge project is the perfect place.

Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick and easy.

I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in general. Any other idea?

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

PS: for those who are maven afficionado, this is equivalent to the mojo project at codehaus.

On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:


On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:

Alan, Ricardo,

what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.

The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No own macros though.
That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but which, often, can do mathml for example).

We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a jira issue that contains the jar.

It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though... i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on the dvi inclusion in the print channel.

Would there be a better space to publish these ?
we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the XWiki folks team has a better place?

1) For publishing the jar, the best is probably the xwiki code zone
2) For the source code, it really depends on you. You have 3 options I can think of:

a) a project wherever you want (sourceforge, libresource, etc)

b) a project on the XWiki Forge. This is not advertised yet but we have a XWiki Forge for hosting projects related to XWiki. We give those projects a SVN repo, a wiki (as in http://<project name>.xwiki.org), a JIRA project, mailing lists, etc. Note that since the machines and admin are currently owned and done by XWiki SAS, it's its decision to decide what project get in. This project would definitely fit in.

Since maybe creating a project just for one macro would be a bit too much, we could create a general purpose project for hosting outside contributions (plugins, macros, applications). Actually I think this would be a very good idea. It would be very open and anyone asking would get commit access to it.

c) you're interested in participating to the xwiki development and in this case we include your macro in the xwiki source code and we vote you in as a committer to improve and support it (of course that would be after seeing the source code and ensuring it complies with the xwiki coding conventions, etc).

Let us know what you'd prefer.

Thanks
-Vincent

Le 20 févr. 08 à 10:17, <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
 
I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something in-editor is developed
Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
 
That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody i have a solution :-).
 
Alan
 
 
 


From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

[hidden email] wrote:

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo


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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

rrodrigueznt
Vincent Massol wrote:

> The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means there
> would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:
>
> 1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the
> contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a
> committer
> 2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a macro
> he has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where
> he/she can contribute with others on it, then this special forge
> project is the perfect place.
>
> Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick and easy.
>
> I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in general.
> Any other idea?
>

I do like both idea b) and the name "xlet". As I keep trying to enter
this great developing universe, the availability of this "special forge"
could ease things. Let me guess much more people are in my same
situation. What I don't know is how complicated would be for "core devs"
to be sure the code developed for any of the coming xlets (I've already
added this new word to my dictionary :) is not dangerous for a XWiki
installation. Or perhaps this must not be a concern at all for core devs
and they will be used on each one's risk.

Vincent, I am not so sure about this "macro" doesn't deserve its own
project. Although I am just an entry level TeX user, if Paul's team is
able to work out the dvi inclusion in the print channel (just copying
what Paul said in his message), doesn't open the door to use TeX in many
other ways? TeX tables, for instance.

Thanks!

--
Ricardo Rodríguez
Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

vmassol
Administrator

On Feb 20, 2008, at 12:38 PM, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network  
ICT Team wrote:

> Vincent Massol wrote:
>> The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means  
>> there
>> would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:
>>
>> 1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the
>> contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a
>> committer
>> 2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a macro
>> he has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where
>> he/she can contribute with others on it, then this special forge
>> project is the perfect place.
>>
>> Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick and  
>> easy.
>>
>> I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in  
>> general.
>> Any other idea?
>>
>
> I do like both idea b) and the name "xlet". As I keep trying to enter
> this great developing universe, the availability of this "special  
> forge"
> could ease things. Let me guess much more people are in my same
> situation. What I don't know is how complicated would be for "core  
> devs"
> to be sure the code developed for any of the coming xlets (I've  
> already
> added this new word to my dictionary :) is not dangerous for a XWiki
> installation. Or perhaps this must not be a concern at all for core  
> devs
> and they will be used on each one's risk.
>
> Vincent, I am not so sure about this "macro" doesn't deserve its own
> project. Although I am just an entry level TeX user, if Paul's team is
> able to work out the dvi inclusion in the print channel (just copying
> what Paul said in his message), doesn't open the door to use TeX in  
> many
> other ways? TeX tables, for instance.

I think I was not clear. I see this macro going into this "xlet"'  
project but not in a project on its own since that's a lot more  
maintenance to do... I'd rather we have a single project for now and  
if one of the module in there outgrows the project then it could move  
to be a top level project.

Hope this makes sense
-Vincent
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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

vmassol
Administrator

On Feb 20, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

>
> On Feb 20, 2008, at 12:38 PM, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network  
> ICT Team wrote:
>
>> Vincent Massol wrote:
>>> The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means  
>>> there
>>> would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:
>>>
>>> 1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the
>>> contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a
>>> committer
>>> 2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a  
>>> macro
>>> he has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where
>>> he/she can contribute with others on it, then this special forge
>>> project is the perfect place.
>>>
>>> Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick  
>>> and easy.
>>>
>>> I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in  
>>> general.
>>> Any other idea?
>>>
>>
>> I do like both idea b) and the name "xlet". As I keep trying to enter
>> this great developing universe, the availability of this "special  
>> forge"
>> could ease things. Let me guess much more people are in my same
>> situation. What I don't know is how complicated would be for "core  
>> devs"
>> to be sure the code developed for any of the coming xlets (I've  
>> already
>> added this new word to my dictionary :) is not dangerous for a XWiki
>> installation. Or perhaps this must not be a concern at all for core  
>> devs
>> and they will be used on each one's risk.
>>
>> Vincent, I am not so sure about this "macro" doesn't deserve its own
>> project. Although I am just an entry level TeX user, if Paul's team  
>> is
>> able to work out the dvi inclusion in the print channel (just copying
>> what Paul said in his message), doesn't open the door to use TeX in  
>> many
>> other ways? TeX tables, for instance.
>
> I think I was not clear. I see this macro going into this "xlet"'  
> project but not in a project on its own since that's a lot more  
> maintenance to do... I'd rather we have a single project for now and  
> if one of the module in there outgrows the project then it could  
> move to be a top level project.

That said I would also love if Paul wanted to join the xwiki dev team  
in a more general way than just this macro. In which case this macro  
could go directly into the platform core. But that's for Paul to  
decide and we would need to see the code to do some due diligence on  
it first.

-Vincent

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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

rrodrigueznt
In reply to this post by vmassol
Vincent Massol wrote:
>
> I think I was not clear. I see this macro going into this "xlet"'  
> project but not in a project on its own since that's a lot more  
> maintenance to do... I'd rather we have a single project for now and  
> if one of the module in there outgrows the project then it could move  
> to be a top level project.
>
> Hope this makes sense
> -Vincent

Far clear! Thanks!

--
Ricardo Rodríguez
Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by Paul Libbrecht
Paul Libbrecht wrote:

> Alan, Ricardo,
>
> what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a
> javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.
>
> The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No own
> macros though.
> That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but
> which, often, can do mathml for example).
>
> We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a
> jira issue that contains the jar.
>
> It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though...
> i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which
> is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on the
> dvi inclusion in the print channel.
>

Hi,

We're currently using FOP to generate PDFs. FOP cannot use DVIs (at
least not currently, with the available external resource plugins). It
does support some EPS.

However, using the TeX system brings some problems:
- there is a dependency on an external tool, as we cannot bundle a TeX
system.
- TeX is pretty slow. If it is used only for generating the PDF export
of a wiki document with few equations, then that is not a major issue,
since exporting PDF is not something frequently done. But imagine using
it for displaying a document with several equations (>20), and how long
it would take to make 20 shell commands to start TeX, generate the eps
files, load those files from the disk, and send them to the client. No
way this would work without a proper cache.

Another way to generate nice graphics from LaTeX equations is by
combining these tools: one that converts LaTeX to MathML, and one that
converts MathML to something else.

The first tool is needed as LaTeX is not quite an open standard. There
is only one fully supported compiler, and it has limitations. On the
other hand, MathML is interesting even as a final equation format, as
some browsers have support for it, although with some problems. But
there are many tools that work with MathML, viewers, editors, converters...

Two candidates I found during a small Google session:

http://math.etsu.edu/LaTeXMathML/LaTeXMathML.js -> LaTeX => MathML
converter in JavaScript. The code should be converted to Java, so that
the whole process can be done in the native language for XWiki.

http://jeuclid.sourceforge.net/ -> MathML multipurpose tool. among
others, it has a MathML => PNG converter, and a FOP plugin to directly
support MathML in the XML source, which are preserved in the generated
PDF. This means that we don't need to separately convert equations into
something else and then include some images in the PDF, but we can use
one XML file that contains all the XHTML source and the MathML equations.

These tools can be combined into a Radeox filter + macro. The filter
allows a fast syntax, like $$\sum(i)$$, while the macro allows some
customization, like
{latex:align=right|zoom=2|background=yellow}\sum(i){latex}


Another TeX=>MML converter I found is BlahTeXML, but it is written in C.
And the code is not so comprehensible, so porting it to java will be
harder. However, by comparing the size of blah and the js converter
above, I'd say that probably blah does a better job at the conversion.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by alan-at-iaea
[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
> Or is there?
>
>
> Or how can I use formulas, maybe you know a good latex html live editor.
>
>
> Since xwiki is more and more used by universities and labs….it would be
> nice to have something, if there already isnt?
>
> Thanx,
> alan
>

You can also take a look at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/SPAWN
(volunteers needed)
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by vmassol
Vincent Massol wrote:

> The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means there
> would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:
>
> 1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the
> contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a committer
> 2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a macro he
> has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where he/she
> can contribute with others on it, then this special forge project is the
> perfect place.
>
> Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick and easy.
>
> I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in general.
> Any other idea?

xlet is already used for Digital TV 'lets.

wiklet is already used as the name of another wiki engine.

walet (wiki application-let) is free. Sounds too much like wallet.

wlet is free, but doesn't sound so good.

xwlet is free, but how does one pronounce it?


I like xlet and wiklet... Can we use one of them although they are
already used for something else? I guess xlet is not possible, as it is
used by Sun in the JavaTV specification. Probably trademarked.


> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> PS: for those who are maven afficionado, this is equivalent to the mojo
> project at codehaus.
>
> On Feb 20, 2008, at 11:08 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Paul Libbrecht wrote:
>>
>>> Alan, Ricardo,
>>>
>>> what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a
>>> javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.
>>>
>>> The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No
>>> own macros though.
>>> That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but
>>> which, often, can do mathml for example).
>>>
>>> We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a
>>> jira issue that contains the jar.
>>>
>>> It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though...
>>> i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex
>>> (which is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work
>>> out on the dvi inclusion in the print channel.
>>>
>>> Would there be a better space to publish these ?
>>> we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the
>>> XWiki folks team has a better place?
>>
>> 1) For publishing the jar, the best is probably the xwiki code zone
>> 2) For the source code, it really depends on you. You have 3 options I
>> can think of:
>>
>> a) a project wherever you want (sourceforge, libresource, etc)
>>
>> b) a project on the XWiki Forge. This is not advertised yet but we
>> have a XWiki Forge for hosting projects related to XWiki. We give
>> those projects a SVN repo, a wiki (as in http://<project
>> name>.xwiki.org), a JIRA project, mailing lists, etc. Note that since
>> the machines and admin are currently owned and done by XWiki SAS, it's
>> its decision to decide what project get in. This project would
>> definitely fit in.
>>
>> Since maybe creating a project just for one macro would be a bit too
>> much, we could create a general purpose project for hosting outside
>> contributions (plugins, macros, applications). Actually I think this
>> would be a very good idea. It would be very open and anyone asking
>> would get commit access to it.
>>
>> c) you're interested in participating to the xwiki development and in
>> this case we include your macro in the xwiki source code and we vote
>> you in as a committer to improve and support it (of course that would
>> be after seeing the source code and ensuring it complies with the
>> xwiki coding conventions, etc).
>>
>> Let us know what you'd prefer.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Le 20 févr. 08 à 10:17, <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
>>>>  
>>>> I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something
>>>> in-editor is developed
>>>> Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
>>>> Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
>>>>  
>>>> That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody
>>>> i have a solution :-).
>>>>  
>>>> Alan
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> From: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez]
>>>> Your EPEC Network ICT Team
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
>>>> To: XWiki Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?
>>>>
>>>> [hidden email] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement
>>>>> formulas?
>>>>> Or is there?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> You must be aware of this...
>>>>
>>>> http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae
>>>>
>>>> There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue.
>>>> Look for MathTran there.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran
>>>>
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>
>>>> Ricardo
>>>>
>>>


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Re: Hosting xwiki related source code (was Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?)

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by rrodrigueznt
[Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team wrote:

> Vincent Massol wrote:
>> The more I think about the more I like idea b) below. This means there
>> would be 2 options for anyone wanting to contribute code:
>>
>> 1) If the person is interested in xwiki in general, the best is the
>> contribute it in xwiki's SVN itself and have the person be made a
>> committer
>> 2) if the person is interested only in a specific thing, like a macro
>> he has developed, a plugin, an app, and is looking for a place where
>> he/she can contribute with others on it, then this special forge
>> project is the perfect place.
>>
>> Now we need to find a name for it and then creating it is quick and easy.
>>
>> I propose to name it "xlet" which means an xwiki extension in general.
>> Any other idea?
>>
>
> I do like both idea b) and the name "xlet". As I keep trying to enter
> this great developing universe, the availability of this "special forge"
> could ease things. Let me guess much more people are in my same
> situation. What I don't know is how complicated would be for "core devs"
> to be sure the code developed for any of the coming xlets (I've already
> added this new word to my dictionary :) is not dangerous for a XWiki
> installation. Or perhaps this must not be a concern at all for core devs
> and they will be used on each one's risk.

Yep, core devs shouldn't bother with the code quality. If a cool macro
appears there, and should be moved to the main XWiki repo, then a core
dev can either ask the authors to improve it, work with the original
authors, or simply take over the project, if the authors don't
cooperate/can't be reached.

But in an public FLOSS forge, code quality tends to improve with the
project popularity. Whenever someone wants to use/improve something,
it's probably that (s)he'll submit the code fixes to the forge.

And when a core dev sees something nice in the forge, he can always
spare some of his time and knowledge to improve it.

> Vincent, I am not so sure about this "macro" doesn't deserve its own
> project. Although I am just an entry level TeX user, if Paul's team is
> able to work out the dvi inclusion in the print channel (just copying
> what Paul said in his message), doesn't open the door to use TeX in many
> other ways? TeX tables, for instance.
>
> Thanks!
>


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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

alan-at-iaea
In reply to this post by Paul Libbrecht

You can see first results at...

http://193.136.136.185:8080/xwiki/bin/view/Sandbox/xWikiTutorial

it actually works pretty good. i could do everything....using MathTran....as paul suggested.

 



From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Libbrecht
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 10:50
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Alan, Ricardo,

what's on i2geo.net will be published soon. It's just a macro and a javascript embedding and uses the MathTran server.

The syntax? real LaTeX, which is indeed running at mathtran.org. No own macros though.
That also means it's full LaTeX contrary to most latex-imitators (but which, often, can do mathml for example).

We should be announcing this in a few days... probably starting as a jira issue that contains the jar.

It may take a fair more time to get high-quality printouts though... i.e. either that someone works on the print-channel-through tex (which is fragile because tex is a very old system) or that we work out on the dvi inclusion in the print channel.

Would there be a better space to publish these ?
we could start a project on our libresource forge, but maybe the XWiki folks team has a better place?

paul




Le 20 févr. 08 à 10:17, <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Oh thanks ricardo - that was quick
 
I think the MathTran should be good for now....until maybe something in-editor is developed
Do you have experience with MathTran and linking it to the page?
Does it work good and project all LaTex formulae?
 
That would be good to know, before i go out there and tell everybody i have a solution :-).
 
Alan
 
 
 


From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team
Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2008 09:57
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Latex html in editor for math formulas?

[hidden email] wrote:

Hi folks,

Will there be an additional button in the editor, to implement formulas?
Or is there?


Hi,

You must be aware of this...

http://i2geo.net/bin/Sandbox/Formulae

There is at least a thread in xwiki-devs dealing with this issue. Look for MathTran there.

http://www.nabble.com/forum/Search.jtp?forum=2564&local=y&query=MathTran

Hope this helps,

Ricardo



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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Axel-16
In reply to this post by Sergiu Dumitriu-2
On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 5:07 AM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Paul Libbrecht wrote:
...
>  http://math.etsu.edu/LaTeXMathML/LaTeXMathML.js -> LaTeX => MathML
>  converter in JavaScript. The code should be converted to Java, so that
>  the whole process can be done in the native language for XWiki.
Did someone test this as a starting point? (I've never used it)
http://scenari-platform.org/svn/dev-core/trunk/Jav_EXT/com/scenari/ext/latex/


--
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WikiBlog: http://www.groovy-news.org/e/page/axelclk
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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

Paul Libbrecht
In reply to this post by Sergiu Dumitriu-2

Le 21 févr. 08 à 05:07, Sergiu Dumitriu a écrit :
> We're currently using FOP to generate PDFs. FOP cannot use DVIs (at
> least not currently, with the available external resource plugins). It
> does support some EPS.

Therefore I asked if drawing on some Graphics2D was doable as part of  
that (I suppose it could be piped along with Batik's Graphics object  
for example). We do have a dvi2svg tool already here.

We'd still be minimal in terms of installation... the TeX fonts only  
and still not the TeX system.

> However, using the TeX system brings some problems:
> - there is a dependency on an external tool, as we cannot bundle a TeX
> system.

No. That is the idea of using MathTran as a service... it's a remote  
service.... currently the macro just generates the appropriate <img>  
tags. All the PNG generation and TeX running is MathTran's.

For MathTran to do proper alignment it should be served from the  
server so caching is being considered.

> - TeX is pretty slow.

Damm less than FOP ! (;-)) (some FOP instances used TeX btw)

> If it is used only for generating the PDF export  of a wiki  
> document with few equations, then that is not a major issue,  since  
> exporting PDF is not something frequently done. But imagine using
> it for displaying a document with several equations (>20), and how  
> long
> it would take to make 20 shell commands to start TeX, generate the eps
> files, load those files from the disk, and send them to the client. No
> way this would work without a proper cache.

That is why MathTran is a TeX daemon... it seems to be able to make  
at least hundreds expressions a second. Note... the i2geo server does  
no rendering... it's all at mathtran's server at the open-university-
of-the-uk.

> Another way to generate nice graphics from LaTeX equations is by
> combining these tools: one that converts LaTeX to MathML, and one that
> converts MathML to something else.

MathML is surely very good and the MathML tool-set is far richer (see  
MathML software section of w3.org/Math). I can attest this many times!
What's not rich enough to the taste of many mathematicians (and  
cannot be fully rich since this language is not specified) is LaTeX  
to MathML... the differences always byte TeX-experts. This is my sole  
reason to push a pure TeX approach such as MathTran (aside of the  
high-layout-quality).

As I indicated at other places I wish math-input would be in three  
flavours:

- TeX because there will always be folks asking it

- some syntax (but which? Blahtex, which is known to cover the whole  
wikipedia? itex2mml? LaTeXMML?) which goes to MathML-presentation for  
supporting browsers (and pictures for others)

- a content-oriented syntax that produces OpenMath or MathML-content  
(searchable, tooltippable, better-copy-and-pastable, ...).

In all these situations the TeX fonts are very often needed to do a  
good quality rendering.

Should I rather stop the TeX approach (MathTran has limitations e.g.  
with the usage of self-defined macros) and push more the MathML one?
It's basically about assessing the "eternal need for real TeX".

thoughts most welcome!

paul


> The first tool is needed as LaTeX is not quite an open standard. There
> is only one fully supported compiler, and it has limitations. On the
> other hand, MathML is interesting even as a final equation format, as
> some browsers have support for it, although with some problems. But
> there are many tools that work with MathML, viewers, editors,  
> converters...
>
> Two candidates I found during a small Google session:
>
> http://math.etsu.edu/LaTeXMathML/LaTeXMathML.js -> LaTeX => MathML
> converter in JavaScript. The code should be converted to Java, so that
> the whole process can be done in the native language for XWiki.
>
> http://jeuclid.sourceforge.net/ -> MathML multipurpose tool. among
> others, it has a MathML => PNG converter, and a FOP plugin to directly
> support MathML in the XML source, which are preserved in the generated
> PDF. This means that we don't need to separately convert equations  
> into
> something else and then include some images in the PDF, but we can use
> one XML file that contains all the XHTML source and the MathML  
> equations.
>
> These tools can be combined into a Radeox filter + macro. The filter
> allows a fast syntax, like $$\sum(i)$$, while the macro allows some
> customization, like
> {latex:align=right|zoom=2|background=yellow}\sum(i){latex}
>
> Another TeX=>MML converter I found is BlahTeXML, but it is written  
> in C.
> And the code is not so comprehensible, so porting it to java will be
> harder. However, by comparing the size of blah and the js converter
> above, I'd say that probably blah does a better job at the conversion.
>

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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

rrodrigueznt
Hi,

Paul Libbrecht wrote:

> That is why MathTran is a TeX daemon... it seems to be able to make at
> least hundreds expressions a second. Note... the i2geo server does no
> rendering... it's all at mathtran's server at the
> open-university-of-the-uk.

By googling to try to understand what you are speaking about, I've found
this (just login as guest to access the thread)...

http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=76857

Look at the last two entries by Cristina Berisso and Jonathan Fine
(MathTran project manager). It looks like if XWiki will rely on this
service something must be done to be sure it is available after August 2008.

Cheers,

Ricardo

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Re: Latex html in editor for math formulas?

rrodrigueznt
As for their plans...

http://www.mathtran.org/plans.html

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