Quantcast

[PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
14 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

[PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
Here is a new proposal on this subject.

This supersets the following threads:
* http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
* http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
* http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw

We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).

Here are the details:

= One flavor

We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.

Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).

= No "Base flavor"

But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
sense in any kind of flavor.

= Demo package

We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
page.

We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
(pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
page too.

We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
XWiki is a server thing.

WDYT ?

Thanks,
--
Thomas Mortagne
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

vmassol
Administrator
Hi,

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 15:51, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>
> This supersets the following threads:
> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>
> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>
> Here are the details:
>
> = One flavor
>
> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>
> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>
> = No "Base flavor"
>
> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
> sense in any kind of flavor.
>
> = Demo package
>
> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
> page.
>
> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
> page too.
>
> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
> XWiki is a server thing.
>
> WDYT ?

Fine with me obviously (since we discussed it together :)).

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> --
> Thomas Mortagne

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:

> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>
> This supersets the following threads:
> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>
> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>
> Here are the details:
>
> = One flavor
>
> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>
> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>
> = No "Base flavor"
>
> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
> sense in any kind of flavor.
>
> = Demo package
>
> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
> page.
>
> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
> page too.

Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
split flavors into three levels:

- The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
- Recommended flavors are next, in a list
- All flavors behind a "browse more" button

The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
in the package.

Everything else sounds good, +1.

> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
> XWiki is a server thing.
>
> WDYT ?


--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

vmassol
Administrator

> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>
>> This supersets the following threads:
>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>
>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>
>> Here are the details:
>>
>> = One flavor
>>
>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>
>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>
>> = No "Base flavor"
>>
>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>
>> = Demo package
>>
>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>> page.
>>
>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>> page too.
>
> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
> split flavors into three levels:
>
> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>
> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
> in the package.

Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.

Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?

Thanks
-Vincent

> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>
>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>
>> WDYT ?
>
>
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu/

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
On 04/14/2017 06:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

>
>> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>>
>>> This supersets the following threads:
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>>
>>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>>
>>> Here are the details:
>>>
>>> = One flavor
>>>
>>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>>
>>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>>
>>> = No "Base flavor"
>>>
>>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>>
>>> = Demo package
>>>
>>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>>> page.
>>>
>>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>>> page too.
>>
>> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
>> split flavors into three levels:
>>
>> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
>> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
>> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>>
>> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
>> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
>> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
>> in the package.
>
> Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.
>
> Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?

Indeed, that's why I said "needed for installing the _base_ flavor". If
XWiki detects that it can't fetch the list of flavors from the internet,
instead of displaying the "select flavor to install" screen, it will
display an alternative "no internet connection detected, install a base
wiki or leave the wiki completely empty" screen.

> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>>
>>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>>
>>> WDYT ?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergiu Dumitriu
>> http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
>


--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Sergiu,

> On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 04/14/2017 06:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>
>>> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>>>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>>>
>>>> This supersets the following threads:
>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>>>
>>>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>>>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>>>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>>>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>>>
>>>> Here are the details:
>>>>
>>>> = One flavor
>>>>
>>>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>>>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>>>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>>>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>>>
>>>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>>>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>>>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>>>
>>>> = No "Base flavor"
>>>>
>>>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>>>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>>>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>>>
>>>> = Demo package
>>>>
>>>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>>>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>>>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>>>> page too.
>>>
>>> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
>>> split flavors into three levels:
>>>
>>> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
>>> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
>>> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>>>
>>> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
>>> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
>>> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
>>> in the package.
>>
>> Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.
>>
>> Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?
>
> Indeed, that's why I said "needed for installing the _base_ flavor". If
> XWiki detects that it can't fetch the list of flavors from the internet,
> instead of displaying the "select flavor to install" screen, it will
> display an alternative "no internet connection detected, install a base
> wiki or leave the wiki completely empty" screen.

Ok I get it. That could work but we would need to implement it and always use the locally available flavor extensions even if there’s an internet connection since installing from internet is much longer (several additional minutes) and we need to offer the best possible testing/first-time experience.

And sponsoring companies must be also be able to provide a ZIP with their flavor pre-installed or locally available. We would provide a link to their page providing the download.

It could indeed save us one packaging.

@Thomas: WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>>>
>>>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>>>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>>>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>>>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>>>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>>>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>>>
>>>> WDYT ?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
On 04/15/2017 08:17 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi Sergiu,
>
>> On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/14/2017 06:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>>>>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>>>>
>>>>> This supersets the following threads:
>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>>>>
>>>>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>>>>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>>>>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>>>>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are the details:
>>>>>
>>>>> = One flavor
>>>>>
>>>>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>>>>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>>>>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>>>>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>>>>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>>>>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>>>>
>>>>> = No "Base flavor"
>>>>>
>>>>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>>>>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>>>>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>>>>
>>>>> = Demo package
>>>>>
>>>>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>>>>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>>>>> page.
>>>>>
>>>>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>>>>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>>>>> page too.
>>>>
>>>> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
>>>> split flavors into three levels:
>>>>
>>>> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
>>>> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
>>>> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>>>>
>>>> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
>>>> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
>>>> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
>>>> in the package.
>>>
>>> Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.
>>>
>>> Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?
>>
>> Indeed, that's why I said "needed for installing the _base_ flavor". If
>> XWiki detects that it can't fetch the list of flavors from the internet,
>> instead of displaying the "select flavor to install" screen, it will
>> display an alternative "no internet connection detected, install a base
>> wiki or leave the wiki completely empty" screen.
>
> Ok I get it. That could work but we would need to implement it and always use the locally available flavor extensions even if there’s an internet connection since installing from internet is much longer (several additional minutes) and we need to offer the best possible testing/first-time experience.

Depending on how this is implemented, this can also solve another issue:
installing war snapshots. This is something that some of the PhenoTips
users have been asking about, and while possible, it's not as easy as
just putting the war in Tomcat and running the distribution wizard.

> And sponsoring companies must be also be able to provide a ZIP with their flavor pre-installed or locally available. We would provide a link to their page providing the download.
>
> It could indeed save us one packaging.
>
> @Thomas: WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>>>>
>>>>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>>>>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>>>>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>>>>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>>>>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>>>>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> WDYT ?
>


--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu

--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

vmassol
Administrator

> On 15 Apr 2017, at 14:22, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 04/15/2017 08:17 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>> Hi Sergiu,
>>
>>> On 15 Apr 2017, at 13:44, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 04/14/2017 06:08 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>>>>>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This supersets the following threads:
>>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>>>>>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>>>>>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>>>>>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>>>>>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are the details:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = One flavor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>>>>>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>>>>>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>>>>>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>>>>>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>>>>>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = No "Base flavor"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>>>>>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>>>>>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = Demo package
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>>>>>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>>>>>> page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>>>>>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>>>>>> page too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
>>>>> split flavors into three levels:
>>>>>
>>>>> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
>>>>> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
>>>>> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>>>>>
>>>>> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
>>>>> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
>>>>> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
>>>>> in the package.
>>>>
>>>> Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.
>>>>
>>>> Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?
>>>
>>> Indeed, that's why I said "needed for installing the _base_ flavor". If
>>> XWiki detects that it can't fetch the list of flavors from the internet,
>>> instead of displaying the "select flavor to install" screen, it will
>>> display an alternative "no internet connection detected, install a base
>>> wiki or leave the wiki completely empty" screen.
>>
>> Ok I get it. That could work but we would need to implement it and always use the locally available flavor extensions even if there’s an internet connection since installing from internet is much longer (several additional minutes) and we need to offer the best possible testing/first-time experience.
>
> Depending on how this is implemented, this can also solve another issue:
> installing war snapshots. This is something that some of the PhenoTips
> users have been asking about, and while possible, it's not as easy as
> just putting the war in Tomcat and running the distribution wizard.

I don’t understand what this means. What are the issues? What would your users need/want?

Thanks
-Vincent

>
>> And sponsoring companies must be also be able to provide a ZIP with their flavor pre-installed or locally available. We would provide a link to their page providing the download.
>>
>> It could indeed save us one packaging.
>>
>> @Thomas: WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>>>>>
>>>>>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>>>>>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>>>>>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>>>>>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>>>>>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>>>>>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WDYT ?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
>> Depending on how this is implemented, this can also solve another issue:
>> installing war snapshots. This is something that some of the PhenoTips
>> users have been asking about, and while possible, it's not as easy as
>> just putting the war in Tomcat and running the distribution wizard.
>
> I don’t understand what this means. What are the issues? What would your users need/want?

Build a snapshot, deploy the resulting war on a server.

The distribution wizard, by default, won't find the right XARs.

One idea is to enable the snapshots Nexus repository as an extension
repository for XWiki, but this only works if the same snapshot was
recently built by Jenkins, not if there are other changes (or if there's
no Jenkins/Nexus at all set up for the custom fork of the user).

What I tell them to do is to get the extensions directory from the .zip,
put it on the server in the permanent directory, and run a find+sed
script that sets the <installed.installed> flag to false.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

vmassol
Administrator

> On 15 Apr 2017, at 19:29, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> Depending on how this is implemented, this can also solve another issue:
>>> installing war snapshots. This is something that some of the PhenoTips
>>> users have been asking about, and while possible, it's not as easy as
>>> just putting the war in Tomcat and running the distribution wizard.
>>
>> I don’t understand what this means. What are the issues? What would your users need/want?
>
> Build a snapshot, deploy the resulting war on a server.
>
> The distribution wizard, by default, won't find the right XARs.
>
> One idea is to enable the snapshots Nexus repository as an extension
> repository for XWiki, but this only works if the same snapshot was
> recently built by Jenkins, not if there are other changes (or if there's
> no Jenkins/Nexus at all set up for the custom fork of the user).

Ok I see.

Yes we need to stop making the All XAR available since it’s not handling JAR dependencies and instead provide a ZIPped extension directory that users can simply unzip in the extensions directory of their permanent directory (or some other special directory configured as an extension repo by default in XWiki and that XWiki installs by default at startup or something like that).

Thanks
-Vincent

> What I tell them to do is to get the extensions directory from the .zip,
> put it on the server in the permanent directory, and run a find+sed
> script that sets the <installed.installed> flag to false.
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu/

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
No the main user case is really not "offline install" for me. There is
other ways to deal with that and the need is not specific to
jetty/hsqldb package anyway.

As explained on http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6 the main
target is quick test (you unzip/run and test something related to this
flavor quickly). The download part does not change much in the install
time, most of the time is spent saving more that 400 documents in the
database.

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:34, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/14/2017 09:51 AM, Thomas Mortagne wrote:
>>> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>>>
>>> This supersets the following threads:
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
>>> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>>>
>>> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
>>> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
>>> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
>>> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>>>
>>> Here are the details:
>>>
>>> = One flavor
>>>
>>> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
>>> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
>>> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
>>> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>>>
>>> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
>>> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
>>> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>>>
>>> = No "Base flavor"
>>>
>>> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
>>> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
>>> sense in any kind of flavor.
>>>
>>> = Demo package
>>>
>>> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
>>> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
>>> page.
>>>
>>> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
>>> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
>>> page too.
>>
>> Why? Is it that bad to always let the user choose the flavor? We can
>> split flavors into three levels:
>>
>> - The "Raw XWiki" flavor is on top, pre-selected
>> - Recommended flavors are next, in a list
>> - All flavors behind a "browse more" button
>>
>> The only case when leaving the standalone package empty might fail is in
>> a no-internet environment, but for this we can have a workaround: make
>> the jars, xars and poms needed for installing the base flavor available
>> in the package.
>
> Yes the reason is for the offline test use case.
>
> Bundling all flavors could be a solution indeed but it seems a bit overkill to me, especially if the user only wants a single one, don’t you think?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Everything else sounds good, +1.
>>
>>> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
>>> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
>>> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
>>> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
>>> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
>>> XWiki is a server thing.
>>>
>>> WDYT ?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sergiu Dumitriu
>> http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
>



--
Thomas Mortagne
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>
> This supersets the following threads:
> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>
> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>
> Here are the details:
>
> = One flavor
>
> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>
> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>

ok for now. Still I see this as in intermediate step until we get more
flavors. If it has no particular purpose / use case, I don't think people
will use / want it, especially when we will have the Demo or the targeted
flavors.

When we will have more flavors, I think the core dev team should take care
of the Base 'extension' and the Development Flavor.


>
> = No "Base flavor"
>
> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
> sense in any kind of flavor.
>

We will need to make some special rules and treat this as API. We need
rules to add and remove dependencies and they should go through vote +
announcements since they could impact third-party flavors.
How many flavors should depend of an extension in order to consider it
going in the base? 3-5?
Can we add contrib extensions or just platform ones?
We kind of previously discussed some of the items several times in the
past, but we should document the rules.


>
> = Demo package
>
> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
> page.
>
> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
> page too.
>

From a development / testing perspective I like this packaging, since I
don't want to spend several minutes each day installing the flavor. Still I
guess the time is kind of the same: spend on downloading or on installing.
The difference is that in DW you need to follow the steps.


>
> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
> XWiki is a server thing.
>

ok.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> WDYT ?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Marius Dumitru Florea
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
Sounds good. +1

Thanks,
Marius

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here is a new proposal on this subject.
>
> This supersets the following threads:
> * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
> * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
> * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
>
> We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
> the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
> flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
> generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
>
> Here are the details:
>
> = One flavor
>
> We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
> generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
> with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
> thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
>
> Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
> flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
> Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
>
> = No "Base flavor"
>
> But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
> by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
> sense in any kind of flavor.
>
> = Demo package
>
> We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
> you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
> page.
>
> We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
> (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
> page too.
>
> We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
> with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
> actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
> are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
> production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
> XWiki is a server thing.
>
> WDYT ?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [PROPOSAL] Yet another new platform flavor proposal or how to get rid of XWiki Enterprise

Guillaume Delhumeau
+1 for the whole idea, and +1 for the Caty's remark. Having a package with
everything installed makes users win time. At least we should have it for
ourselves...

2017-04-18 14:31 GMT+02:00 Marius Dumitru Florea <
[hidden email]>:

> Sounds good. +1
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
>
> On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Here is a new proposal on this subject.
> >
> > This supersets the following threads:
> > * http://markmail.org/message/mhhurc7lbyfanph7
> > * http://markmail.org/message/nav5a77hzmhq4gq6
> > * http://markmail.org/message/fd5ijxdquzdhtykw
> >
> > We discussed with other committers (Vincent and Ludovic) and came to
> > the conclusion that it was not core dev team job to provide a specific
> > flavor like Knowledge Base and that we should focus only on a very
> > generic one (pretty much XE without the Blog).
> >
> > Here are the details:
> >
> > = One flavor
> >
> > We develop only 1 flavor located in xwiki-platform repository. It's a
> > generic flavor not targeting any specific use case (the first version
> > with be XE without the Blog). We will discuss the name in another
> > thread later, let's call it "Wiki Flavor" for now.
> >
> > Of course everyone is free and welcomed to build lots of contrib
> > flavors which will be proposed when you install XWiki ("Development
> > Flavor", "Demo Flavor", "Blog Flavor", etc.).
> >
> > = No "Base flavor"
> >
> > But platform will provide an extension that can be used as dependency
> > by various flavors to get "core" UI extensions that we think make
> > sense in any kind of flavor.
> >
> > = Demo package
> >
> > We currently have a jetty/hsqldb based package in platform which let
> > you choose which flavor you want. We will show it in the download
> > page.
> >
> > We will add another one with the Wiki Flavor already installed in it
> > (pretty much like the XE jetty/hsqldb package). Listed on the download
> > page too.
> >
> > We don't maintain exe/jar installers anymore in platform, they die
> > with XWiki Enterprise. They are a real pain to maintain and we are
> > actually failing since they don't really work properly everywhere they
> > are supposed to work. It does not worth the trouble for what is not a
> > production ready package and it's better anyway to make more clear
> > XWiki is a server thing.
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
> >
>



--
Guillaume Delhumeau ([hidden email])
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
Loading...