[Page type] What about Main.WebHome

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[Page type] What about Main.WebHome

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
Hi xwikiers,

In 10.3 I introduced a "home" type with Main.WebHome in mind with the
following defaults:
* edit allow
* delete forbidden
* no upgrade if modified

I tough that deleting the wiki home page was not so great.

Eduard argue that since the wiki home page is configurable there is no
reason to restrict delete right.

WDYT ?

I feel that most people don't change the configured home page so I'm
+1 to keep it like this but I'm not strongly against allowing delete
if others think it's fine since I don't have much experience with
configured home page use case.

--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [Page type] What about Main.WebHome

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
The problem with delete is that they might delete the whole Main space,
that includes Search, etc.

Some users also try to rename the homepage, which implies a Delete, which
usually breaks stuff.

For normal applications I would still not allow delete, since the Home
should contain livetables, dashboards, indexes with the children, into
pages, etc.

Thanks,
Caty

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi xwikiers,
>
> In 10.3 I introduced a "home" type with Main.WebHome in mind with the
> following defaults:
> * edit allow
> * delete forbidden
> * no upgrade if modified
>
> I tough that deleting the wiki home page was not so great.
>
> Eduard argue that since the wiki home page is configurable there is no
> reason to restrict delete right.
>
> WDYT ?
>
> I feel that most people don't change the configured home page so I'm
> +1 to keep it like this but I'm not strongly against allowing delete
> if others think it's fine since I don't have much experience with
> configured home page use case.
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
>
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Re: [Page type] What about Main.WebHome

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
I'm only talking about Main.WebHome page here and not its children
which won't be affected in any way by the type of this page.

On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> The problem with delete is that they might delete the whole Main space,
> that includes Search, etc.
>
> Some users also try to rename the homepage, which implies a Delete, which
> usually breaks stuff.
>
> For normal applications I would still not allow delete, since the Home
> should contain livetables, dashboards, indexes with the children, into
> pages, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
> On Fri, Apr 27, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi xwikiers,
>>
>> In 10.3 I introduced a "home" type with Main.WebHome in mind with the
>> following defaults:
>> * edit allow
>> * delete forbidden
>> * no upgrade if modified
>>
>> I tough that deleting the wiki home page was not so great.
>>
>> Eduard argue that since the wiki home page is configurable there is no
>> reason to restrict delete right.
>>
>> WDYT ?
>>
>> I feel that most people don't change the configured home page so I'm
>> +1 to keep it like this but I'm not strongly against allowing delete
>> if others think it's fine since I don't have much experience with
>> configured home page use case.
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>>



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [Page type] What about Main.WebHome

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
Hi Thomas and all,

> On 27 Apr 2018, at 15:46, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi xwikiers,
>
> In 10.3 I introduced a "home" type with Main.WebHome in mind with the
> following defaults:
> * edit allow
> * delete forbidden
> * no upgrade if modified
>
> I tough that deleting the wiki home page was not so great.
>
> Eduard argue that since the wiki home page is configurable there is no
> reason to restrict delete right.
>
> WDYT ?
>
> I feel that most people don't change the configured home page so I'm
> +1 to keep it like this but I'm not strongly against allowing delete
> if others think it's fine since I don't have much experience with
> configured home page use case.

I was also a bit surprised to see a special “home” page type.

If the only difference between “demo” and “home” is the ability or not to delete it, then indeed I’m not sure we need the “home” type.

For me the only pages that would need to be prevented from being deleted are pages that, if deleted, will make the wiki bug (ie the wiki cannot work without them), and, AFAIK we should never have pages that do this (when those pages don’t exist, they should be automatically recreated when needed).

Since we support the feature of being able to configure/change the default wiki home page, we should allow deleting Main.WebHome as a user will be able to change his wiki home page.

Now if we want to incitate users to not delete “home” pages, we could protect them by default (i.e. have some right on them so that only admins can delete them by default). I think that would be enough for me.

All that said, and as Caty mentioned, when we delete a page, the children can be selected too, and a rename will perform a delete. And we might want to prevent this from happening for Main.WebHome. Most users won’t like the name “Main” and will want to try renaming it or deleting it so that they can have their own namespace. IMO the best answer to that is:
* Finishing removing default pages located in the Main space and move them elsewhere so that users can rename or delete the Main space without it being a problem at all
* Allow configuring the page not found template when on Main.WebHome so that if the page is deleted, the admin/user can see a message with a link, explaining how to change the wiki home page.

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne

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Re: [Page type] What about Main.WebHome

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
"demo" seems to win.

Applied in https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-15277.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 9:49 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Thomas and all,
>
>> On 27 Apr 2018, at 15:46, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi xwikiers,
>>
>> In 10.3 I introduced a "home" type with Main.WebHome in mind with the
>> following defaults:
>> * edit allow
>> * delete forbidden
>> * no upgrade if modified
>>
>> I tough that deleting the wiki home page was not so great.
>>
>> Eduard argue that since the wiki home page is configurable there is no
>> reason to restrict delete right.
>>
>> WDYT ?
>>
>> I feel that most people don't change the configured home page so I'm
>> +1 to keep it like this but I'm not strongly against allowing delete
>> if others think it's fine since I don't have much experience with
>> configured home page use case.
>
> I was also a bit surprised to see a special “home” page type.
>
> If the only difference between “demo” and “home” is the ability or not to delete it, then indeed I’m not sure we need the “home” type.
>
> For me the only pages that would need to be prevented from being deleted are pages that, if deleted, will make the wiki bug (ie the wiki cannot work without them), and, AFAIK we should never have pages that do this (when those pages don’t exist, they should be automatically recreated when needed).
>
> Since we support the feature of being able to configure/change the default wiki home page, we should allow deleting Main.WebHome as a user will be able to change his wiki home page.
>
> Now if we want to incitate users to not delete “home” pages, we could protect them by default (i.e. have some right on them so that only admins can delete them by default). I think that would be enough for me.
>
> All that said, and as Caty mentioned, when we delete a page, the children can be selected too, and a rename will perform a delete. And we might want to prevent this from happening for Main.WebHome. Most users won’t like the name “Main” and will want to try renaming it or deleting it so that they can have their own namespace. IMO the best answer to that is:
> * Finishing removing default pages located in the Main space and move them elsewhere so that users can rename or delete the Main space without it being a problem at all
> * Allow configuring the page not found template when on Main.WebHome so that if the page is deleted, the admin/user can see a message with a link, explaining how to change the wiki home page.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>



--
Thomas Mortagne