[Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

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[Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Mohamed Boussaa
Hello XWikiers,

This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.

An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local blog),
the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.

The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog use
cases.

An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:

*Posts*

   - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
   - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
   blog home page
   - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs


*Categories*

   - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
   - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
   space will be displayed
   - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the isolated
   blog space
   - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
   category panel

*Panels*

   - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
   blogs.
   - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog 'recent
   posts' panel.
   - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts' panel
   for isolated blogs
   - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
   global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
   - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be visible
   on the one matching the isolated blogs.
   - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already follows
   the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs

*How to create an isolated post?*
On the Blog/Management page

   - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
   - When the checkbox is checked:

             - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
             - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others) into
the local space


WDYT?
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Mohamed,

> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello XWikiers,
>
> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
>
> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local blog),
> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.
>
> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog use
> cases.
>
> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
>
> *Posts*
>
>   - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
>   - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
>   blog home page
>   - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
>
>
> *Categories*
>
>   - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
>   - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
>   space will be displayed
>   - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the isolated
>   blog space
>   - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
>   category panel
>
> *Panels*
>
>   - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
>   blogs.
>   - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog 'recent
>   posts' panel.
>   - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts' panel
>   for isolated blogs
>   - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
>   global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
>   - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be visible
>   on the one matching the isolated blogs.
>   - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already follows
>   the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
>
> *How to create an isolated post?*
> On the Blog/Management page
>
>   - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
>   - When the checkbox is checked:
>
>             - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
>             - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others) into
> the local space
>
>
> WDYT?

Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.

I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:


How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?

I remember that I made the following suggestion:
* When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the following:
** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard page and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current user).

Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we already have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:

{noformat}
      <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire wiki)</values>
{noformat}

Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't make sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.

So I think we could just do the following instead:
* Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
* Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog posts. If left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%" is used then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in the where part of XWQL query.

I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.

WDYT?


Thanks!
-Vincent

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Mohamed Boussaa
On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Mohamed,
>
> > On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello XWikiers,
> >
> > This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> >
> > An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local blog),
> > the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.
> >
> > The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
> > independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog use
> > cases.
> >
> > An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> >
> > *Posts*
> >
> >   - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> >   - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
> >   blog home page
> >   - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> >
> >
> > *Categories*
> >
> >   - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> >   - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
> >   space will be displayed
> >   - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> isolated
> >   blog space
> >   - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
> >   category panel
> >
> > *Panels*
> >
> >   - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> >   blogs.
> >   - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> 'recent
> >   posts' panel.
> >   - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts' panel
> >   for isolated blogs
> >   - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> >   global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> >   - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be visible
> >   on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> >   - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already follows
> >   the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> >
> > *How to create an isolated post?*
> > On the Blog/Management page
> >
> >   - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> >   - When the checkbox is checked:
> >
> >             - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> >             - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others) into
> > the local space
> >
> >
> > WDYT?
>
> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
>
> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
>
> “
> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more generally
> what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
>
> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
> following:
> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard page
> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current user).
>

  We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your suggestion
can be a good solution.


> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we already
> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
>
> {noformat}
>       <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire wiki)</values>
> {noformat}
>
> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't make
> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
>
> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog posts. If
> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%" is used
> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in the
> where part of XWQL query.
>
> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
>

 The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display, it
includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
'Blog' space.

 The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
   - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog space
   - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other blogs
   - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
global/other local blogs
   - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
posts/categories of the isolated blog


> WDYT?
> “
>
> Thanks!
> -Vincent
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Mohamed Boussaa
Hello,

After a discussion with Vincent and Denis, we've concluded that the actual
implementation is an unfinished state of multi-blogs feature, and that our
isolated blog proposal is just a continuation of it.

Actually the blog application propose 2 types of blogs, global and local,
the only global blog is installed by default with xwiki on the '*Blog*'
space. Only local blogs can be created using the blog application UI.

To finish the implementation of the multi-blogs feature, we want to remove
the notion of blog type, which does not have much meaning in the current
implementation. All blogs will therefore be isolated as explained in the
initial proposal above, and the default Blog space will contain a blog like
any other. Displaying blog posts from different spaces into a single blog
require the blogs to share the same categories, which is opposed to the
multi-blog feature initially envision by XWIKI-6355. While we don't close
the idea, it is a advanced UC that we will not cover immediately. To
continute proper sharing of categories in existing blogs, we will add a new
properties to store the reference of the space that store the categories of
a given blog into the BlogClass descriptor. But, for any newly created
blog, we will always set this value to a space inside that new blog, making
those categories isolated for that blog, fixing XWIKI-6355.

We also propose to remove the unrelated and confusing blog type selection
when creating a new blog, that ask if you want it alone in its own space or
mixed with other data in an existing space (default value at the moment).
This choice was mainly to choose if the blog will be in WebHome page or
Blog page of the space. This is no more require now that we have NS and
that all blog post could be nested in a sub-space. Therefore, we want to
replace the creation for with a simple Location picker, and force using
unexisting space when creating a new blog. This will allow the blog
application to be store in any space and also allow it to put in place the
panels that goes with it.

So to resume:


   -  no more global blog type (at least for now, not closed)
   -  no more mixed blog with other documents in the same space (unless
   done after the blog creation)
   - isolated categories per blog (XWIKI-6355)
   - ND adapted creation using a location picker
   - all panels adpated to local blog isolation

The only breakage with the past will be the global blog that will no more
display posts from other spaces.

WDYT ?


If you want more, here is the details about the envision implementation:

*Changes envisions*


   - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
   - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
   the location (space)  of the blog categories.
   - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
   between different blogs
   - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
   property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog local
   space.

       for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
*categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'


   - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
   *<blogSpace>/Categories/*'
   - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
   management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
   categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add, Rename,
   Remove ...)

*Backward compatibility*

Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
space and shared with the other local blogs.

In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:


   -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
   the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created on the
   'Blog' space)

*Changes on blog management page*


   - Remove the 'BlogType' field
   - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
   when you add a new wiki page).
   - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
   will be done to check if the space is a new one.

         A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space

         A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order to
display the blog panels

*Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*

The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
dashboard page.


Thanks,

Mohamed

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mohamed,
>>
>> > On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello XWikiers,
>> >
>> > This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
>> >
>> > An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
>> blog),
>> > the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.
>> >
>> > The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
>> > independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog use
>> > cases.
>> >
>> > An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
>> >
>> > *Posts*
>> >
>> >   - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
>> >   - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
>> >   blog home page
>> >   - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
>> >
>> >
>> > *Categories*
>> >
>> >   - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
>> >   - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
>> >   space will be displayed
>> >   - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
>> isolated
>> >   blog space
>> >   - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
>> >   category panel
>> >
>> > *Panels*
>> >
>> >   - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
>> >   blogs.
>> >   - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
>> 'recent
>> >   posts' panel.
>> >   - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
>> panel
>> >   for isolated blogs
>> >   - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
>> >   global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
>> >   - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be visible
>> >   on the one matching the isolated blogs.
>> >   - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already follows
>> >   the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
>> >
>> > *How to create an isolated post?*
>> > On the Blog/Management page
>> >
>> >   - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
>> >   - When the checkbox is checked:
>> >
>> >             - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
>> >             - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
>> into
>> > the local space
>> >
>> >
>> > WDYT?
>>
>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
>>
>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
>>
>> “
>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
>>
>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
>> following:
>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard page
>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current user).
>>
>
>   We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your suggestion
> can be a good solution.
>
>
>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we already
>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
>>
>> {noformat}
>>       <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire wiki)</values>
>> {noformat}
>>
>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't make
>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
>>
>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog posts. If
>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%" is used
>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in the
>> where part of XWQL query.
>>
>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
>>
>
>  The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display, it
> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> 'Blog' space.
>
>  The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
>    - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> space
>    - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other blogs
>    - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> global/other local blogs
>    - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> posts/categories of the isolated blog
>
>
>> WDYT?
>> “
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi,

> On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snip]

> If you want more, here is the details about the envision implementation:
>
> *Changes envisions*
>
>
>   - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
>   - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
>   the location (space)  of the blog categories.
>   - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
>   between different blogs
>   - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
>   property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog local
>   space.
>
>       for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
>
>
>   - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
>   *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’

Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).

>   - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
>   management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
>   categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add, Rename,
>   Remove ...)
>
> *Backward compatibility*
>
> Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
> global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
> space and shared with the other local blogs.
>
> In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
>
>
>   -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
>   the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created on the
>   'Blog' space)
>
> *Changes on blog management page*
>
>
>   - Remove the 'BlogType' field
>   - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
>   when you add a new wiki page).
>   - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
>   will be done to check if the space is a new one.
>
>         A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
>
>         A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order to
> display the blog panels

You forgot one point:

* Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.

We also discussed about:

* Macros *

* Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
* Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by having parameters to control how many entries to display

> *Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*
>
> The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> dashboard page.

My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):

* If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the posts of the main blog
* If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line being a link to a blog.
* Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m sure Caty would have an idea :)

All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
>
> Mohamed
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mohamed,
>>>
>>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello XWikiers,
>>>>
>>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
>>>>
>>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
>>> blog),
>>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.
>>>>
>>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
>>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog use
>>>> cases.
>>>>
>>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
>>>>
>>>> *Posts*
>>>>
>>>>  - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
>>>>  - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
>>>>  blog home page
>>>>  - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Categories*
>>>>
>>>>  - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
>>>>  - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
>>>>  space will be displayed
>>>>  - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
>>> isolated
>>>>  blog space
>>>>  - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
>>>>  category panel
>>>>
>>>> *Panels*
>>>>
>>>>  - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
>>>>  blogs.
>>>>  - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
>>> 'recent
>>>>  posts' panel.
>>>>  - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
>>> panel
>>>>  for isolated blogs
>>>>  - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
>>>>  global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
>>>>  - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be visible
>>>>  on the one matching the isolated blogs.
>>>>  - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already follows
>>>>  the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
>>>>
>>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
>>>> On the Blog/Management page
>>>>
>>>>  - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
>>>>  - When the checkbox is checked:
>>>>
>>>>            - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
>>>>            - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
>>> into
>>>> the local space
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
>>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
>>>
>>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
>>>
>>> “
>>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
>>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
>>>
>>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
>>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
>>> following:
>>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
>>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard page
>>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current user).
>>>
>>
>>  We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your suggestion
>> can be a good solution.
>>
>>
>>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we already
>>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
>>>
>>> {noformat}
>>>      <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
>>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire wiki)</values>
>>> {noformat}
>>>
>>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't make
>>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
>>>
>>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
>>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
>>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
>>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog posts. If
>>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%" is used
>>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in the
>>> where part of XWQL query.
>>>
>>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
>>>
>>
>> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display, it
>> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
>> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
>> 'Blog' space.
>>
>> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
>>   - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
>> space
>>   - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other blogs
>>   - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
>> global/other local blogs
>>   - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
>> posts/categories of the isolated blog
>>
>>
>>> WDYT?
>>> “
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Mohamed Boussaa
Thanks for the reply Vincent.

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > If you want more, here is the details about the envision implementation:
> >
> > *Changes envisions*
> >
> >
> >   - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
> >   - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
> >   the location (space)  of the blog categories.
> >   - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
> >   between different blogs
> >   - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
> >   property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
> local
> >   space.
> >
> >       for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> > *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
> >
> >
> >   - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
> >   *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
>
> Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
> open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
> page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
>
> >   - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
> >   management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
> >   categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
> Rename,
> >   Remove ...)
> >
> > *Backward compatibility*
> >
> > Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
> > global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
> > space and shared with the other local blogs.
> >
> > In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
> >
> >
> >   -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
> >   the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created on
> the
> >   'Blog' space)
> >
> > *Changes on blog management page*
> >
> >
> >   - Remove the 'BlogType' field
> >   - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
> >   when you add a new wiki page).
> >   - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
> >   will be done to check if the space is a new one.
> >
> >         A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
> >
> >         A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order to
> > display the blog panels
>
> You forgot one point:
>
> * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.
>
> We also discussed about:
>
> * Macros *
>
> * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
> the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
> * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by
> having parameters to control how many entries to display
>
> > *Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*
> >
> > The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> > available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> > dashboard page.
>
> My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
>
> * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the
> posts of the main blog
> * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
> being a link to a blog.
> * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list
> the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m
> sure Caty would have an idea :)
>
> All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on
> the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mohamed
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Mohamed,
> >>>
> >>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello XWikiers,
> >>>>
> >>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> >>>>
> >>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
> >>> blog),
> >>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that space.
> >>>>
> >>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
> >>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
> use
> >>>> cases.
> >>>>
> >>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> >>>>
> >>>> *Posts*
> >>>>
> >>>>  - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> >>>>  - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in the
> >>>>  blog home page
> >>>>  - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> *Categories*
> >>>>
> >>>>  - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> >>>>  - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated blog
> >>>>  space will be displayed
> >>>>  - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> >>> isolated
> >>>>  blog space
> >>>>  - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global blog
> >>>>  category panel
> >>>>
> >>>> *Panels*
> >>>>
> >>>>  - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> >>>>  blogs.
> >>>>  - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> >>> 'recent
> >>>>  posts' panel.
> >>>>  - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
> >>> panel
> >>>>  for isolated blogs
> >>>>  - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> >>>>  global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> >>>>  - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
> visible
> >>>>  on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> >>>>  - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
> follows
> >>>>  the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> >>>>
> >>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
> >>>> On the Blog/Management page
> >>>>
> >>>>  - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> >>>>  - When the checkbox is checked:
> >>>>
> >>>>            - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> >>>>            - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
> >>> into
> >>>> the local space
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> WDYT?
> >>>
> >>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> >>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
> >>>
> >>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
> >>>
> >>> “
> >>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
> >>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
> >>>
> >>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> >>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
> >>> following:
> >>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> >>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard page
> >>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current
> user).
> >>>
> >>
> >>  We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your suggestion
> >> can be a good solution.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
> already
> >>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
> >>>
> >>> {noformat}
> >>>      <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> >>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
> wiki)</values>
> >>> {noformat}
> >>>
> >>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't make
> >>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
> >>>
> >>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> >>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> >>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> >>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
> posts. If
> >>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%" is
> used
> >>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
> the
> >>> where part of XWQL query.
> >>>
> >>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display, it
> >> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> >> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> >> 'Blog' space.
> >>
> >> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
> >>   - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> >> space
> >>   - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other blogs
> >>   - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> >> global/other local blogs
> >>   - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> >> posts/categories of the isolated blog
> >>
> >>
> >>> WDYT?
> >>> “
> >>>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Eduard Moraru
Hi,

It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual blog
posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
between 2 blogs.

If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them displays
what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right now,
they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
displaying all the posts for its configured categories.

However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local blog
would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might work,
*however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will start
showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.

Thanks,
Eduard

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > If you want more, here is the details about the envision
> implementation:
> > >
> > > *Changes envisions*
> > >
> > >
> > >   - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
> > >   - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
> > >   the location (space)  of the blog categories.
> > >   - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
> > >   between different blogs
> > >   - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
> > >   property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
> > local
> > >   space.
> > >
> > >       for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> > > *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
> > >
> > >
> > >   - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
> > >   *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
> >
> > Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
> > open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
> > page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
> >
> > >   - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
> > >   management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
> > >   categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
> > Rename,
> > >   Remove ...)
> > >
> > > *Backward compatibility*
> > >
> > > Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
> > > global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
> > > space and shared with the other local blogs.
> > >
> > > In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
> > >
> > >
> > >   -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
> > >   the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
> on
> > the
> > >   'Blog' space)
> > >
> > > *Changes on blog management page*
> > >
> > >
> > >   - Remove the 'BlogType' field
> > >   - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
> > >   when you add a new wiki page).
> > >   - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
> > >   will be done to check if the space is a new one.
> > >
> > >         A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
> > >
> > >         A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
> to
> > > display the blog panels
> >
> > You forgot one point:
> >
> > * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.
> >
> > We also discussed about:
> >
> > * Macros *
> >
> > * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
> > the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
> > * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by
> > having parameters to control how many entries to display
> >
> > > *Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*
> > >
> > > The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> > > available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> > > dashboard page.
> >
> > My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
> >
> > * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the
> > posts of the main blog
> > * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
> > being a link to a blog.
> > * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list
> > the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m
> > sure Caty would have an idea :)
> >
> > All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on
> > the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mohamed
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Mohamed,
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]
> >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hello XWikiers,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
> > >>> blog),
> > >>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
> space.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
> > >>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
> > use
> > >>>> cases.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Posts*
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> > >>>>  - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
> the
> > >>>>  blog home page
> > >>>>  - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Categories*
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> > >>>>  - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
> blog
> > >>>>  space will be displayed
> > >>>>  - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> > >>> isolated
> > >>>>  blog space
> > >>>>  - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
> blog
> > >>>>  category panel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Panels*
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> > >>>>  blogs.
> > >>>>  - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> > >>> 'recent
> > >>>>  posts' panel.
> > >>>>  - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
> > >>> panel
> > >>>>  for isolated blogs
> > >>>>  - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> > >>>>  global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> > >>>>  - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
> > visible
> > >>>>  on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> > >>>>  - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
> > follows
> > >>>>  the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
> > >>>> On the Blog/Management page
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> > >>>>  - When the checkbox is checked:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>            - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> > >>>>            - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
> > >>> into
> > >>>> the local space
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> WDYT?
> > >>>
> > >>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> > >>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
> > >>>
> > >>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
> > >>>
> > >>> “
> > >>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
> > >>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
> > >>>
> > >>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> > >>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
> > >>> following:
> > >>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> > >>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
> page
> > >>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current
> > user).
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>  We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
> suggestion
> > >> can be a good solution.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
> > already
> > >>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
> > >>>
> > >>> {noformat}
> > >>>      <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> > >>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
> > wiki)</values>
> > >>> {noformat}
> > >>>
> > >>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
> make
> > >>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
> > >>>
> > >>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> > >>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> > >>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> > >>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
> > posts. If
> > >>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
> is
> > used
> > >>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
> > the
> > >>> where part of XWQL query.
> > >>>
> > >>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
> it
> > >> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> > >> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> > >> 'Blog' space.
> > >>
> > >> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
> > >>   - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> > >> space
> > >>   - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
> blogs
> > >>   - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> > >> global/other local blogs
> > >>   - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> > >> posts/categories of the isolated blog
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> WDYT?
> > >>> “
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks!
> > >>> -Vincent
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Denis Gervalle-2
Hi Edy,
Thanks for your comments. In our current proposal, there will be no aggregation of any kind.
So for existing blogs, those that are currently all sharing the Blog space categories, each blog will now only display the blog post of its own space, both in the blog list of their respective WebHome (or Blog page), and for the counter into the categories panel. The only thing that will stay “shared” is the management of those categories.
This is just a back compatibility feature, since the idea is no more to share categories between blogs. All new blogs will have their category_location property set to their own Categories subspace.
If we want to reintroduce some sort of aggregating blog, the way it could only work will be with blogs having the same value in their category_location property, but we have no plan about that yet.
I hope this makes it clearer. Let me know if you have further questions.
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 14:58, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual blog
posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
between 2 blogs.

If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them displays
what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right now,
they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
displaying all the posts for its configured categories.

However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local blog
would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might work,
*however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will start
showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.

Thanks,
Eduard

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > If you want more, here is the details about the envision
> implementation:
> > >
> > > *Changes envisions*
> > >
> > >
> > > - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
> > > - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
> > > the location (space) of the blog categories.
> > > - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
> > > between different blogs
> > > - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
> > > property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
> > local
> > > space.
> > >
> > > for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> > > *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
> > >
> > >
> > > - All blog categories will be created in this nested space '
> > > *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
> >
> > Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
> > open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
> > page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
> >
> > > - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
> > > management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
> > > categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
> > Rename,
> > > Remove ...)
> > >
> > > *Backward compatibility*
> > >
> > > Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
> > > global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
> > > space and shared with the other local blogs.
> > >
> > > In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
> > >
> > >
> > > - If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
> > > the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
> on
> > the
> > > 'Blog' space)
> > >
> > > *Changes on blog management page*
> > >
> > >
> > > - Remove the 'BlogType' field
> > > - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
> > > when you add a new wiki page).
> > > - A new blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
> > > will be done to check if the space is a new one.
> > >
> > > A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
> > >
> > > A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
> to
> > > display the blog panels
> >
> > You forgot one point:
> >
> > * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.
> >
> > We also discussed about:
> >
> > * Macros *
> >
> > * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
> > the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
> > * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by
> > having parameters to control how many entries to display
> >
> > > *Registration in the Application Panel (Blogs entry points)*
> > >
> > > The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> > > available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> > > dashboard page.
> >
> > My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
> >
> > * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the
> > posts of the main blog
> > * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
> > being a link to a blog.
> > * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list
> > the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m
> > sure Caty would have an idea :)
> >
> > All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on
> > the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Mohamed
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Mohamed,
> > >>>
> > >>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]
> >
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hello XWikiers,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
> > >>> blog),
> > >>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
> space.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
> > >>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
> > use
> > >>>> cases.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Posts*
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> > >>>> - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
> the
> > >>>> blog home page
> > >>>> - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Categories*
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> > >>>> - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
> blog
> > >>>> space will be displayed
> > >>>> - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> > >>> isolated
> > >>>> blog space
> > >>>> - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
> blog
> > >>>> category panel
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *Panels*
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> > >>>> blogs.
> > >>>> - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> > >>> 'recent
> > >>>> posts' panel.
> > >>>> - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
> > >>> panel
> > >>>> for isolated blogs
> > >>>> - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> > >>>> global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> > >>>> - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
> > visible
> > >>>> on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> > >>>> - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
> > follows
> > >>>> the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
> > >>>> On the Blog/Management page
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> > >>>> - When the checkbox is checked:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> > >>>> - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
> > >>> into
> > >>>> the local space
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> WDYT?
> > >>>
> > >>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> > >>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
> > >>>
> > >>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
> > >>>
> > >>> “
> > >>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
> > >>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
> > >>>
> > >>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> > >>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
> > >>> following:
> > >>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> > >>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
> page
> > >>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current
> > user).
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
> suggestion
> > >> can be a good solution.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
> > already
> > >>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
> > >>>
> > >>> {noformat}
> > >>> <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> > >>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
> > wiki)</values>
> > >>> {noformat}
> > >>>
> > >>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
> make
> > >>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
> > >>>
> > >>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> > >>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> > >>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> > >>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
> > posts. If
> > >>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
> is
> > used
> > >>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
> > the
> > >>> where part of XWQL query.
> > >>>
> > >>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
> it
> > >> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> > >> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> > >> 'Blog' space.
> > >>
> > >> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
> > >> - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> > >> space
> > >> - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
> blogs
> > >> - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> > >> global/other local blogs
> > >> - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> > >> posts/categories of the isolated blog
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> WDYT?
> > >>> “
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks!
> > >>> -Vincent
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Denis,

> On 9 Mar 2017, at 16:12, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Edy,
> Thanks for your comments. In our current proposal, there will be no aggregation of any kind.
> So for existing blogs, those that are currently all sharing the Blog space categories, each blog will now only display the blog post of its own space, both in the blog list of their respective WebHome (or Blog page), and for the counter into the categories panel. The only thing that will stay “shared” is the management of those categories.
> This is just a back compatibility feature, since the idea is no more to share categories between blogs. All new blogs will have their category_location property set to their own Categories subspace.

Note that I’ve talked to Mohamed after our call Denis and what we concluded is that having several blogs sharing the same categories is a real use case/need so I wouldn’t consider it as backward compatibility only.

So the idea for me is:

* In the blog management UI, offer the possibility to specify the location of the categories for the new blog to be created.
* By default it would point to new categories if the user doesn’t enter anything.

Thanks
-Vincent

> If we want to reintroduce some sort of aggregating blog, the way it could only work will be with blogs having the same value in their category_location property, but we have no plan about that yet.
> I hope this makes it clearer. Let me know if you have further questions.
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 14:58, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual blog
> posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
> between 2 blogs.
>
> If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
> in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them displays
> what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
> which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
> aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right now,
> they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
> displaying all the posts for its configured categories.
>
> However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
> fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
> with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local blog
> would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might work,
> *however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
> in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
> using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will start
> showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> If you want more, here is the details about the envision
>> implementation:
>>>>
>>>> *Changes envisions*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
>>>> - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
>>>> the location (space) of the blog categories.
>>>> - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
>>>> between different blogs
>>>> - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
>>>> property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
>>> local
>>>> space.
>>>>
>>>> for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
>>>> *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - All blog categories will be created in this nested space '
>>>> *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
>>>
>>> Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
>>> open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
>>> page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
>>>
>>>> - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
>>>> management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
>>>> categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
>>> Rename,
>>>> Remove ...)
>>>>
>>>> *Backward compatibility*
>>>>
>>>> Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
>>>> global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
>>>> space and shared with the other local blogs.
>>>>
>>>> In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
>>>> the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
>> on
>>> the
>>>> 'Blog' space)
>>>>
>>>> *Changes on blog management page*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Remove the 'BlogType' field
>>>> - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
>>>> when you add a new wiki page).
>>>> - A new blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
>>>> will be done to check if the space is a new one.
>>>>
>>>> A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
>>>>
>>>> A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
>> to
>>>> display the blog panels
>>>
>>> You forgot one point:
>>>
>>> * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.
>>>
>>> We also discussed about:
>>>
>>> * Macros *
>>>
>>> * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
>>> the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
>>> * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by
>>> having parameters to control how many entries to display
>>>
>>>> *Registration in the Application Panel (Blogs entry points)*
>>>>
>>>> The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
>>>> available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
>>>> dashboard page.
>>>
>>> My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
>>>
>>> * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the
>>> posts of the main blog
>>> * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
>>> being a link to a blog.
>>> * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list
>>> the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m
>>> sure Caty would have an idea :)
>>>
>>> All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on
>>> the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Mohamed
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mohamed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]
>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello XWikiers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
>>>>>> blog),
>>>>>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
>> space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
>>>>>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
>>> use
>>>>>>> cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Posts*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
>>>>>>> - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
>> the
>>>>>>> blog home page
>>>>>>> - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Categories*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
>>>>>>> - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
>> blog
>>>>>>> space will be displayed
>>>>>>> - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
>>>>>> isolated
>>>>>>> blog space
>>>>>>> - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
>> blog
>>>>>>> category panel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Panels*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
>>>>>>> blogs.
>>>>>>> - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
>>>>>> 'recent
>>>>>>> posts' panel.
>>>>>>> - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>> for isolated blogs
>>>>>>> - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
>>>>>>> global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
>>>>>>> - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
>>> visible
>>>>>>> on the one matching the isolated blogs.
>>>>>>> - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
>>> follows
>>>>>>> the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
>>>>>>> On the Blog/Management page
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
>>>>>>> - When the checkbox is checked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
>>>>>>> - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the local space
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
>>>>>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “
>>>>>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
>>>>>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
>>>>>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
>>>>>> following:
>>>>>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
>>>>>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
>> page
>>>>>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current
>>> user).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
>> suggestion
>>>>> can be a good solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
>>> already
>>>>>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {noformat}
>>>>>> <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
>>>>>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
>>> wiki)</values>
>>>>>> {noformat}
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
>> make
>>>>>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
>>>>>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
>>>>>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
>>>>>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
>>> posts. If
>>>>>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
>> is
>>> used
>>>>>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
>>> the
>>>>>> where part of XWQL query.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
>> it
>>>>> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
>>>>> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
>>>>> 'Blog' space.
>>>>>
>>>>> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
>>>>> - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
>>>>> space
>>>>> - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
>> blogs
>>>>> - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
>>>>> global/other local blogs
>>>>> - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
>>>>> posts/categories of the isolated blog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>> “
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Eduard Moraru
Hi Edy,

> On 9 Mar 2017, at 14:58, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual blog
> posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
> between 2 blogs.
>
> If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
> in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them displays
> what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
> which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
> aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right now,
> they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
> displaying all the posts for its configured categories.

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the blog code algorithm was the following:
* if the blog type is local then in the XWQL/HQL query, add a where clause to only find blog posts in that blog’s space space
* if the blog type is global then don’t add any where restriction

I don’t think it was related to categories. Unless I’m mistaken.

Thanks
-Vincent

>
> However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
> fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
> with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local blog
> would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might work,
> *however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
> in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
> using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will start
> showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> If you want more, here is the details about the envision
>> implementation:
>>>>
>>>> *Changes envisions*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
>>>>  - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
>>>>  the location (space)  of the blog categories.
>>>>  - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
>>>>  between different blogs
>>>>  - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
>>>>  property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
>>> local
>>>>  space.
>>>>
>>>>      for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
>>>> *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
>>>>  *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
>>>
>>> Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
>>> open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
>>> page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
>>>
>>>>  - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
>>>>  management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
>>>>  categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
>>> Rename,
>>>>  Remove ...)
>>>>
>>>> *Backward compatibility*
>>>>
>>>> Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is a
>>>> global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the 'Blog'
>>>> space and shared with the other local blogs.
>>>>
>>>> In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
>>>>  the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
>> on
>>> the
>>>>  'Blog' space)
>>>>
>>>> *Changes on blog management page*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  - Remove the 'BlogType' field
>>>>  - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
>>>>  when you add a new wiki page).
>>>>  - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
>>>>  will be done to check if the space is a new one.
>>>>
>>>>        A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
>>>>
>>>>        A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
>> to
>>>> display the blog panels
>>>
>>> You forgot one point:
>>>
>>> * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a ConfigurableClass.
>>>
>>> We also discussed about:
>>>
>>> * Macros *
>>>
>>> * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
>>> the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
>>> * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature by
>>> having parameters to control how many entries to display
>>>
>>>> *Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*
>>>>
>>>> The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
>>>> available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
>>>> dashboard page.
>>>
>>> My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
>>>
>>> * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display the
>>> posts of the main blog
>>> * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
>>> being a link to a blog.
>>> * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to list
>>> the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that. I’m
>>> sure Caty would have an idea :)
>>>
>>> All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working on
>>> the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Mohamed
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Mohamed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]
>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello XWikiers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
>>>>>> blog),
>>>>>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
>> space.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow having
>>>>>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
>>> use
>>>>>>> cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Posts*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
>>>>>>> - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
>> the
>>>>>>> blog home page
>>>>>>> - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Categories*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
>>>>>>> - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
>> blog
>>>>>>> space will be displayed
>>>>>>> - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
>>>>>> isolated
>>>>>>> blog space
>>>>>>> - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
>> blog
>>>>>>> category panel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Panels*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
>>>>>>> blogs.
>>>>>>> - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
>>>>>> 'recent
>>>>>>> posts' panel.
>>>>>>> - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
>>>>>> panel
>>>>>>> for isolated blogs
>>>>>>> - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
>>>>>>> global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
>>>>>>> - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
>>> visible
>>>>>>> on the one matching the isolated blogs.
>>>>>>> - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
>>> follows
>>>>>>> the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
>>>>>>> On the Blog/Management page
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
>>>>>>> - When the checkbox is checked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
>>>>>>>           - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
>>>>>> into
>>>>>>> the local space
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
>>>>>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “
>>>>>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
>>>>>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
>>>>>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have the
>>>>>> following:
>>>>>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
>>>>>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
>> page
>>>>>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the current
>>> user).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
>> suggestion
>>>>> can be a good solution.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
>>> already
>>>>>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> {noformat}
>>>>>>     <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
>>>>>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
>>> wiki)</values>
>>>>>> {noformat}
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
>> make
>>>>>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
>>>>>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
>>>>>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
>>>>>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
>>> posts. If
>>>>>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
>> is
>>> used
>>>>>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
>>> the
>>>>>> where part of XWQL query.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
>> it
>>>>> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
>>>>> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
>>>>> 'Blog' space.
>>>>>
>>>>> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
>>>>>  - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
>>>>> space
>>>>>  - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
>> blogs
>>>>>  - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
>>>>> global/other local blogs
>>>>>  - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
>>>>> posts/categories of the isolated blog
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>> “
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Eduard Moraru
Hi, Vincent, Denis,

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Edy,
>
> > On 9 Mar 2017, at 14:58, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual
> blog
> > posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
> > between 2 blogs.
> >
> > If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
> > in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them
> displays
> > what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
> > which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
> > aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right
> now,
> > they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
> > displaying all the posts for its configured categories.
>
> Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the blog code
> algorithm was the following:
> * if the blog type is local then in the XWQL/HQL query, add a where clause
> to only find blog posts in that blog’s space space
> * if the blog type is global then don’t add any where restriction
>
> I don’t think it was related to categories. Unless I’m mistaken.
>

No, I was not referring to the current implementation (which yes, AFAIK,
works by looking at the blog's space), but the implications of the current
proposal.

I was under the impression that blogs will now be displaying posts based on
the categories they are using. On the other hand, Denis says they will be
displaying based on their current space, but he also disconsiders sharing
posts (although I see little to no value in sharing only categories).

So what do we do in the end about the actual blog posts that are seen on a
blog's homepage? Are they all just posts located in the current blog's
space (like the old implementation)? If so, then the only change I see this
proposal introducing is to make the main blog a local one, instead of
global, as it is now.

And for categories? Do we just want to be able to use in the current blog
some categories defined in a different blog? What happens when you click on
a category, don`t you end up on a different blog instead of the one you
were just now? Then what do you see in that category, just the posts of
it`s parent Blog, or all the posts from all the blogs using that category?

e.g. You are on /SomeBlog/ that uses the shared category
/Blog/Categories/News. When you click on the category "News", you end up on
the category page of the owning blog /Blog/Categories/News where you will
see... /Blog posts or /Blog + /SomeBlog posts?

Thanks,
Eduard


> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> > However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
> > fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
> > with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local
> blog
> > would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might
> work,
> > *however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
> > in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
> > using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will
> start
> > showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>>> If you want more, here is the details about the envision
> >> implementation:
> >>>>
> >>>> *Changes envisions*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
> >>>>  - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
> >>>>  the location (space)  of the blog categories.
> >>>>  - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
> >>>>  between different blogs
> >>>>  - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
> >>>>  property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
> >>> local
> >>>>  space.
> >>>>
> >>>>      for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> >>>> *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  - All blog categories will be created  in this nested space '
> >>>>  *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
> >>>
> >>> Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
> >>> open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
> >>> page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
> >>>
> >>>>  - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
> >>>>  management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
> >>>>  categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
> >>> Rename,
> >>>>  Remove ...)
> >>>>
> >>>> *Backward compatibility*
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is
> a
> >>>> global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the
> 'Blog'
> >>>> space and shared with the other local blogs.
> >>>>
> >>>> In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  -  If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
> >>>>  the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
> >> on
> >>> the
> >>>>  'Blog' space)
> >>>>
> >>>> *Changes on blog management page*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  - Remove the 'BlogType' field
> >>>>  - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
> >>>>  when you add a new wiki page).
> >>>>  - A new  blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
> >>>>  will be done to check if the space is a new one.
> >>>>
> >>>>        A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
> >>>>
> >>>>        A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
> >> to
> >>>> display the blog panels
> >>>
> >>> You forgot one point:
> >>>
> >>> * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a
> ConfigurableClass.
> >>>
> >>> We also discussed about:
> >>>
> >>> * Macros *
> >>>
> >>> * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
> >>> the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
> >>> * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature
> by
> >>> having parameters to control how many entries to display
> >>>
> >>>> *Registration in the Application Panel  (Blogs entry points)*
> >>>>
> >>>> The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> >>>> available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> >>>> dashboard page.
> >>>
> >>> My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
> >>>
> >>> * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display
> the
> >>> posts of the main blog
> >>> * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
> >>> being a link to a blog.
> >>> * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to
> list
> >>> the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that.
> I’m
> >>> sure Caty would have an idea :)
> >>>
> >>> All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working
> on
> >>> the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Mohamed
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> >>> [hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Mohamed,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <
> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello XWikiers,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
> >>>>>> blog),
> >>>>>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
> >> space.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow
> having
> >>>>>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
> >>> use
> >>>>>>> cases.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Posts*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> >>>>>>> - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
> >> the
> >>>>>>> blog home page
> >>>>>>> - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Categories*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> >>>>>>> - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
> >> blog
> >>>>>>> space will be displayed
> >>>>>>> - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> >>>>>> isolated
> >>>>>>> blog space
> >>>>>>> - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
> >> blog
> >>>>>>> category panel
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Panels*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> >>>>>>> blogs.
> >>>>>>> - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> >>>>>> 'recent
> >>>>>>> posts' panel.
> >>>>>>> - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
> >>>>>> panel
> >>>>>>> for isolated blogs
> >>>>>>> - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> >>>>>>> global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> >>>>>>> - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
> >>> visible
> >>>>>>> on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> >>>>>>> - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
> >>> follows
> >>>>>>> the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
> >>>>>>> On the Blog/Management page
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> >>>>>>> - When the checkbox is checked:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>           - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> >>>>>>>           - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>>> the local space
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> >>>>>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> “
> >>>>>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
> >>>>>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> >>>>>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have
> the
> >>>>>> following:
> >>>>>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> >>>>>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
> >> page
> >>>>>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the
> current
> >>> user).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
> >> suggestion
> >>>>> can be a good solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
> >>> already
> >>>>>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> {noformat}
> >>>>>>     <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> >>>>>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
> >>> wiki)</values>
> >>>>>> {noformat}
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
> >> make
> >>>>>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> >>>>>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> >>>>>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> >>>>>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
> >>> posts. If
> >>>>>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
> >> is
> >>> used
> >>>>>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
> >>> the
> >>>>>> where part of XWQL query.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
> >> it
> >>>>> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> >>>>> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> >>>>> 'Blog' space.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
> >>>>>  - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> >>>>> space
> >>>>>  - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
> >> blogs
> >>>>>  - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> >>>>> global/other local blogs
> >>>>>  - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> >>>>> posts/categories of the isolated blog
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>> “
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>> -Vincent
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Denis Gervalle-2
Hi Edy, Vincent,
Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 17:19, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi, Vincent, Denis,

On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 5:20 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Edy,
>
> > On 9 Mar 2017, at 14:58, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > It may be worth to clarify a bit the behavior and visibility of actual
> blog
> > posts, now that we have covered Categories and the way to share them
> > between 2 blogs.
> >
> > If "Global.Categories" is used by both the "Global" and the "AnotherBlog"
> > in their configuration (as categoriesLocation), which one of them
> displays
> > what? It`s not clear to me which one is the global (i.e.aggregator) and
> > which one is the local (i.e. just reusing the other's categories, but not
> > aggregating the other's posts as well) blog in this case. AFAICS right
> now,
> > they would both display the same content, since, AFAIU, a blog will be
> > displaying all the posts for its configured categories.
>
> Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that the blog code
> algorithm was the following:
> * if the blog type is local then in the XWQL/HQL query, add a where clause
> to only find blog posts in that blog’s space space
> * if the blog type is global then don’t add any where restriction
>
> I don’t think it was related to categories. Unless I’m mistaken.
>

No, I was not referring to the current implementation (which yes, AFAIK,
works by looking at the blog's space), but the implications of the current
proposal.

I was under the impression that blogs will now be displaying posts based on
the categories they are using. On the other hand, Denis says they will be
displaying based on their current space, but he also disconsiders sharing
posts (although I see little to no value in sharing only categories).

So what do we do in the end about the actual blog posts that are seen on a
blog's homepage? Are they all just posts located in the current blog's
space (like the old implementation)? If so, then the only change I see this
proposal introducing is to make the main blog a local one, instead of
global, as it is now.

And for categories? Do we just want to be able to use in the current blog
some categories defined in a different blog? What happens when you click on
a category, don`t you end up on a different blog instead of the one you
were just now? Then what do you see in that category, just the posts of
it`s parent Blog, or all the posts from all the blogs using that category?

e.g. You are on /SomeBlog/ that uses the shared category
/Blog/Categories/News. When you click on the category "News", you end up on
the category page of the owning blog /Blog/Categories/News where you will
see... /Blog posts or /Blog + /SomeBlog posts?

Thanks,
Eduard


> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> > However, maybe I`ve understood it the other way around. Is it instead the
> > fact that the aggregator would specify a multi-valued categoryLocations
> > with the categories of the blogs it wants to aggregate, while a local
> blog
> > would only use his own, local categories to display posts? That might
> work,
> > *however*, it would only be feasible if the aggregating (global) blog was
> > in *read-only* mode. If it`s not read-only and it starts creating posts
> > using one of the aggregated blog's categories, then the new post will
> start
> > showing in the aggregated (local) blog as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the reply Vincent.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 1:26 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>> On 9 Mar 2017, at 12:12, Mohamed Boussaa <[hidden email]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>>> If you want more, here is the details about the envision
> >> implementation:
> >>>>
> >>>> *Changes envisions*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Remove the '*BlogType*' xproperty of the '*Blog.BlogClass*'
> >>>> - Introduce a new property named '*categoriesLocation'* that contains
> >>>> the location (space) of the blog categories.
> >>>> - The 'categoriesLocation' property will allow sharing categories
> >>>> between different blogs
> >>>> - By default when a new blog is created the 'categoriesLocation'
> >>>> property is initialized to a nested space 'Categories' under the blog
> >>> local
> >>>> space.
> >>>>
> >>>> for example If a Blog is created in a space '*A/*' then its '
> >>>> *categoriesLocation*' property wil be initialized to '*A/Categories/*'
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - All blog categories will be created in this nested space '
> >>>> *<blogSpace>/Categories/*’
> >>>
> >>> Note that the rationale for separate Category space is also to fix the
> >>> open issue we have that categories and blog posts cannot share the same
> >>> page name (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6346).
> >>>
> >>>> - The *WebHome* page of the Categories space will be used as a
> >>>> management page of the blog categories, the WebHome will list all the
> >>>> categories of the blog and allows to edit these categories (Add,
> >>> Rename,
> >>>> Remove ...)
> >>>>
> >>>> *Backward compatibility*
> >>>>
> >>>> Actually the default blog installed with xwiki on the 'Blog' space is
> a
> >>>> global blog, it mean that all Blog categories are created on the
> 'Blog'
> >>>> space and shared with the other local blogs.
> >>>>
> >>>> In order to not break the actual use cases we consider that:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - If the 'categoriesLocation' property of a given blog is empty then
> >>>> the categories of the default blog will be used (Categories created
> >> on
> >>> the
> >>>> 'Blog' space)
> >>>>
> >>>> *Changes on blog management page*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Remove the 'BlogType' field
> >>>> - Replace the 'Space' and 'Title' fields with a Location picker (like
> >>>> when you add a new wiki page).
> >>>> - A new blog cannot be created in an existing space, a verification
> >>>> will be done to check if the space is a new one.
> >>>>
> >>>> A 'BlogClass' will be added to the WebHome page of the space
> >>>>
> >>>> A WebPreferences page will be added to the blog space in order
> >> to
> >>>> display the blog panels
> >>>
> >>> You forgot one point:
> >>>
> >>> * Add an Admin UI for the Blog management by adding a
> ConfigurableClass.
> >>>
> >>> We also discussed about:
> >>>
> >>> * Macros *
> >>>
> >>> * Introduce a new {{blog}} macro that could be used anywhere to display
> >>> the content of a blog (see http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6349)
> >>> * Make the blog macro be able to act as a “latest blog posts” feature
> by
> >>> having parameters to control how many entries to display
> >>>
> >>>> *Registration in the Application Panel (Blogs entry points)*
> >>>>
> >>>> The general idea is to have a dashboard page that lists all the blogs
> >>>> available in the wiki. A separate proposal will be done for the blogs
> >>>> dashboard page.
> >>>
> >>> My proposal here is very simple (for a first version):
> >>>
> >>> * If there’s only 1 blog in the wiki: keep it as it now, i.e. display
> the
> >>> posts of the main blog
> >>> * If there’s more than 1 blog in the wiki: display a LT with each line
> >>> being a link to a blog.
> >>> * Option: instead of a LT, use the {{blog/}} macro for each blog to
> list
> >>> the last 5 blog items. We’d just need to find a nice layout for that.
> I’m
> >>> sure Caty would have an idea :)
> >>>
> >>> All the rest sounds good to me! I’m very happy to see someone working
> on
> >>> the blog app; it’s been left untouched for too long.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>>
> >>>> Mohamed
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Mohamed Boussaa <
> >>> [hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:21 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Mohamed,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2 Mar 2017, at 16:53, Mohamed Boussaa <
> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello XWikiers,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This proposal is about adding a new blog type: the isolated blog.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An isolated blog is a blog that is created in a given space (local
> >>>>>> blog),
> >>>>>>> the blog categories and posts are created/visible only in that
> >> space.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The objective of creating this separate blog type is to allow
> having
> >>>>>>> independent blogs in the same wiki and to not break the actual blog
> >>> use
> >>>>>>> cases.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An isolated blog is subject to following conditions:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Posts*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - The isolated blog posts will be created in the local blog space
> >>>>>>> - Only blog posts located in the local space will be displayed in
> >> the
> >>>>>>> blog home page
> >>>>>>> - Prevent the global blog to display posts from isolated blogs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Categories*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - New blog categories are created into the local blog space
> >>>>>>> - On the blog post form only categories located in the isolated
> >> blog
> >>>>>>> space will be displayed
> >>>>>>> - The 'Categories' panel display only categories located in the
> >>>>>> isolated
> >>>>>>> blog space
> >>>>>>> - Categories from isolated blogs are not displayed in the global
> >> blog
> >>>>>>> category panel
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *Panels*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Only display local posts in the 'recent posts' panel for isolated
> >>>>>>> blogs.
> >>>>>>> - Prevent isolated blog posts to be displayed in the global blog
> >>>>>> 'recent
> >>>>>>> posts' panel.
> >>>>>>> - Only display local unpublished posts in the 'Unpublished posts'
> >>>>>> panel
> >>>>>>> for isolated blogs
> >>>>>>> - Prevent unpublished posts from isolated blogs to be displayed at
> >>>>>>> global blog 'Unpublished posts' panel.
> >>>>>>> - Isolated blogs will be removed from any RSS feed but will be
> >>> visible
> >>>>>>> on the one matching the isolated blogs.
> >>>>>>> - The 'archives' panel will not be modified because it already
> >>> follows
> >>>>>>> the isolated blogs conditions in the case of local blogs
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *How to create an isolated post?*
> >>>>>>> On the Blog/Management page
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Add a checkbox "Isolate this blog"
> >>>>>>> - When the checkbox is checked:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> - Create an isolated blog in place of a local blog.
> >>>>>>> - Create the default categories (News, Personal, Others)
> >>>>>> into
> >>>>>>> the local space
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sorry for not answering sooner. I see you’ve now created
> >>>>>> https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-14076.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I’ve just posted a comment there that I’m reposting here:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> “
> >>>>>> How do you address registration in the Application Panel or more
> >>>>>> generally what are the entry points for isolated blogs?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I remember that I made the following suggestion:
> >>>>>> * When you click on the Blog entry in the Application Panel, have
> the
> >>>>>> following:
> >>>>>> ** If there's only 1 blog in the wiki, go to it (as now)
> >>>>>> ** If there's more than 1 blog in the wiki, go to a blog dashboard
> >> page
> >>>>>> and display the list of all blogs in the wiki (visible to the
> current
> >>> user).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We did not think about how to access to the blogs, but your
> >> suggestion
> >>>>> can be a good solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Note that I don't think we need an "isolated" blog type since we
> >>> already
> >>>>>> have the notion of a "local" blog. I can see in BlogClass:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> {noformat}
> >>>>>> <values>local=Space blog (aggregates posts from its space
> >>>>>> only)|global=Global blog (aggregates posts from the entire
> >>> wiki)</values>
> >>>>>> {noformat}
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Global means aggregating posts from the entire wiki so it doesn't
> >> make
> >>>>>> sense to not aggregate posts from an isolated blog.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I think we could just do the following instead:
> >>>>>> * Deprecate the "blogType" xproperty
> >>>>>> * Introduce a new property named "scope" or "includes" that list all
> >>>>>> spaces that will be taken into consideration when displaying blog
> >>> posts. If
> >>>>>> left empty, then the current space of the blog will be used. If "%"
> >> is
> >>> used
> >>>>>> then all spaces will be used (in practice the value would be used in
> >>> the
> >>>>>> where part of XWQL query.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I feel this makes it all more coherent and offers more freedom.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The isolated blog type is not just about what blog posts to display,
> >> it
> >>>>> includes also the panels content and where to create the categories.
> >>>>> Actually categories are global, it means that they are created in the
> >>>>> 'Blog' space.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The objective of the islated blog is to be only visible on its space:
> >>>>> - Isolated blog categories are created and visible only on the blog
> >>>>> space
> >>>>> - The categories are not visible on the post edit page of other
> >> blogs
> >>>>> - The posts are not displayed on the blog index pages of the
> >>>>> global/other local blogs
> >>>>> - In the space of an isolated blog, the panels will display only
> >>>>> posts/categories of the isolated blog
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>> “
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>> -Vincent
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Denis,

> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Edy, Vincent,
> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.

Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.

FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.

My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).

BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

[snip]
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Denis Gervalle-2
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,

> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Edy, Vincent,
> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.

Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.

FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.

My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).
Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.


BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).
You means to have a macro that do the same as {{display reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome” /}} ?
Now replying to your comments on the design documents...
-- Denis

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

[snip]
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator

> On 14 Mar 2017, at 10:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,
>
>> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Edy, Vincent,
>> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
>> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
>> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
>> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
>> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
>
> Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.
>
> FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.
>
> My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).

You said:

> Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.

I was not referring only to uncategorised posts. I was talking about a blog listing all blog posts (even if they come from other blogs) sharing the same categories. Basically the blog aggregation use case.

> BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).

You said:

> You means to have a macro that do the same as {{display reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome” /}} ?

Yes, a macro that an end-user can use, for ex using the WYSIWYG editor, to decide to display blog posts wherever he/she wants in his/her content. If the implementation is as simple as using the display macro then it’s great ;)

Now it’s not as simple since, the user should be able to control whether to also display the ability to add new blog posts or not (the form). By default it shouldn’t be displayed IMO.

Thanks
-Vincent

> Now replying to your comments on the design documents...
> -- Denis
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> [snip]

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Denis Gervalle-2
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:21, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 Mar 2017, at 10:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,
>
>> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Edy, Vincent,
>> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
>> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
>> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
>> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
>> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
>
> Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.
>
> FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.
>
> My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).

You said:

> Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.

I was not referring only to uncategorised posts. I was talking about a blog listing all blog posts (even if they come from other blogs) sharing the same categories. Basically the blog aggregation use case.
So, for categorised posts, you will get them aggregated in the categories themselves like it is already the case now. And we will keep the “All” link that will point to the WebHome of the space holding the categories and that will display all posts sharing that set of categories. What we are unable to do is finding uncategorised post from blogs that are using that set of categories to list them as well. And the why is related to the lazy link between the post and its blog, see my comments on the design page.

> BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).

You said:

> You means to have a macro that do the same as {{display reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome” /}} ?

Yes, a macro that an end-user can use, for ex using the WYSIWYG editor, to decide to display blog posts wherever he/she wants in his/her content. If the implementation is as simple as using the display macro then it’s great ;)

Now it’s not as simple since, the user should be able to control whether to also display the ability to add new blog posts or not (the form). By default it shouldn’t be displayed IMO.
This is not the case, the form is only displayed on the page listing multiple blog posts that will be covered by the planned macros. This is why I currently do not see the value of having a separate macro, since the display macro already fulfil the need. That said, we can think about packaging the BlogPostSheet into a macro with some useful parameters to customise the display of the post. That needs to be designed, it is currently out of scope, but feel free to participate on the design page. ;)
-- Denis


Thanks
-Vincent

> Now replying to your comments on the design documents...
> -- Denis
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> [snip]
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator

> On 14 Mar 2017, at 11:37, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:21, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 14 Mar 2017, at 10:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,
>>
>>> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Edy, Vincent,
>>> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
>>> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
>>> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
>>> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
>>> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
>>
>> Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.
>>
>> FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.
>>
>> My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).
>
> You said:
>
>> Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.
>
> I was not referring only to uncategorised posts. I was talking about a blog listing all blog posts (even if they come from other blogs) sharing the same categories. Basically the blog aggregation use case.
> So, for categorised posts, you will get them aggregated in the categories themselves like it is already the case now. And we will keep the “All” link that will point to the WebHome of the space holding the categories and that will display all posts sharing that set of categories. What we are unable to do is finding uncategorised post from blogs that are using that set of categories to list them as well. And the why is related to the lazy link between the post and its blog, see my comments on the design page.

I’m talking about the home page of blogs, not the Categories home page.

Here’s the use case:
* I Have blog1 using categoriesA
* I have blog2 using categoriesA
* When I go to blog1.WebHome I want to see only blog posts from blog1
* When I go to blog2.WeBhome I want to see only blog posts from blog2
* I create blog3 that uses categoriesA but when I go to blog3.WebHome I want to see all blog posts from all blogs using categoriesA (even uncategorised ones), i.e. all blog posts from blog1, blog2 and blog3 (if any).

>> BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).
>
> You said:
>
>> You means to have a macro that do the same as {{display reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome” /}} ?
>
> Yes, a macro that an end-user can use, for ex using the WYSIWYG editor, to decide to display blog posts wherever he/she wants in his/her content. If the implementation is as simple as using the display macro then it’s great ;)
>
> Now it’s not as simple since, the user should be able to control whether to also display the ability to add new blog posts or not (the form). By default it shouldn’t be displayed IMO.
> This is not the case, the form is only displayed on the page listing multiple blog posts that will be covered by the planned macros. This is why I currently do not see the value of having a separate macro, since the display macro already fulfil the need.

From a simple user POV, it’s a world apart :) And the cost is so small that I really don’t see the issue. In general we’re lacking tons of ready-to-use macros that end users (not developers) can use.

> That said, we can think about packaging the BlogPostSheet into a macro with some useful parameters to customise the display of the post.

Even without parameters, it makes the feature discoverable by users.

> That needs to be designed, it is currently out of scope, but feel free to participate on the design page. ;)

Sure but I was surprised you didn’t put it since we discussed and I thought it was agreed and that you had already included it in your work.

Thanks
-Vincent

> -- Denis
>
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Now replying to your comments on the design documents...
>> -- Denis
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> [snip]

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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

Denis Gervalle-2
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 14:41, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 14 Mar 2017, at 11:37, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:21, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 14 Mar 2017, at 10:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,
>>
>>> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Edy, Vincent,
>>> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
>>> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
>>> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
>>> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
>>> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
>>
>> Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.
>>
>> FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.
>>
>> My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).
>
> You said:
>
>> Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.
>
> I was not referring only to uncategorised posts. I was talking about a blog listing all blog posts (even if they come from other blogs) sharing the same categories. Basically the blog aggregation use case.
> So, for categorised posts, you will get them aggregated in the categories themselves like it is already the case now. And we will keep the “All” link that will point to the WebHome of the space holding the categories and that will display all posts sharing that set of categories. What we are unable to do is finding uncategorised post from blogs that are using that set of categories to list them as well. And the why is related to the lazy link between the post and its blog, see my comments on the design page.

I’m talking about the home page of blogs, not the Categories home page.

Here’s the use case:
* I Have blog1 using categoriesA
* I have blog2 using categoriesA
* When I go to blog1.WebHome I want to see only blog posts from blog1
* When I go to blog2.WeBhome I want to see only blog posts from blog2
This last two cases are what we propose for now. * I create blog3 that uses categoriesA but when I go to blog3.WebHome I want to see all blog posts from all blogs using categoriesA (even uncategorised ones), i.e. all blog posts from blog1, blog2 and blog3 (if any).
This last case (apart from the uncategorised ones) is precisely what the categories space WebHome will be, and accessible through the “All” link in the category panel of all three blogs. And the way all blog lists are managed will be through the same BlogPostList macro that will be therefore usable by the end user in a different context if need be. Displaying them including the uncategorised posts of all three blog is much harder to achieve as I have explained, since there is currently no direct link between the posts and their blog. So, I see this as an advanced use case, that would need much more work. Is it a blocker for you ?

>> BTW, you didn’t mention introducing the {{blogPost}} macro on that design page. I’d envision it as a simple macro used to display the posts of a given blog: {{blog reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome”/}} (where the reference would be a reference to a document having an xobject of type BlogClass).
>
> You said:
>
>> You means to have a macro that do the same as {{display reference=“Space1…SpaceN.WebHome” /}} ?
>
> Yes, a macro that an end-user can use, for ex using the WYSIWYG editor, to decide to display blog posts wherever he/she wants in his/her content. If the implementation is as simple as using the display macro then it’s great ;)
>
> Now it’s not as simple since, the user should be able to control whether to also display the ability to add new blog posts or not (the form). By default it shouldn’t be displayed IMO.
> This is not the case, the form is only displayed on the page listing multiple blog posts that will be covered by the planned macros. This is why I currently do not see the value of having a separate macro, since the display macro already fulfil the need.

From a simple user POV, it’s a world apart :) And the cost is so small that I really don’t see the issue. In general we’re lacking tons of ready-to-use macros that end users (not developers) can use.

> That said, we can think about packaging the BlogPostSheet into a macro with some useful parameters to customise the display of the post.

Even without parameters, it makes the feature discoverable by users.

> That needs to be designed, it is currently out of scope, but feel free to participate on the design page. ;)

Sure but I was surprised you didn’t put it since we discussed and I thought it was agreed and that you had already included it in your work.
With the evolution of the design we discussed today regarding the macros, we are closer to it anyway. So let’s say that it will happen in a custom way.
-- Denis

Thanks
-Vincent

> -- Denis
>
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Now replying to your comments on the design documents...
>> -- Denis
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> [snip]
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Re: [Proposal] Add a new type of blog (Isolated blog)

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Denis/Mohamed,

See below

> On 14 Mar 2017, at 19:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 14:41, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 14 Mar 2017, at 11:37, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:21, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14 Mar 2017, at 10:55, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 9:15, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote: Hi Denis,
>>>
>>>> On 13 Mar 2017, at 19:21, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Edy, Vincent,
>>>> Based on your concerns and our findings, I have finally crafts a design document here: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/BlogImprovemultiblogsupport
>>>> You were right Edy about the need to better support existing sharing of categories and we have therefore improve our proposal in that regard. It now covers mostly all features of the existing blogs like before, with one small difference: the uncategorised posts from other blog spaces than the Blog space will not be displayed outside of that local blog space.
>>>> After further thought, we noticed that the actual Blog space will be slightly special because it will stay the only blog space to store both blog post and blog categories in the same space. Which has the consequences of having the Categories WebHome and the blog WebHome at the same location. The general intend is to properly slip set of categories and blogs, so that the home of a set of categories display posts from all blog posts using any of the categories of the set, while the home of the blog will display only post of that given blog. For the special Blog.WebHome we have finally decided to do a mix, which is all blog posts using any of the categories in Blog + all posts in Blogs. This is the closest to the actual behaviour and the best compromise in our opinion to move forward. Regarding the categories themselves, these will continue to work as before, and display all blog posts of that particular categories, whatever the blog there are from is.
>>>> All that said, in this first version, we will not support the creation of new blogs that share a set of categories from the UI. All new blogs will be created with its own set of categories stored in a subspace of the blog space names Categories.
>>>> I hope the linked design document will respond to all your remaining questions. Don’t hesitate to ask if you still have concerns about the proposed change.
>>>
>>> Thanks for this design page and the precision it brings.
>>>
>>> FYI I’ve added some questions/comments in annotations on that document.
>>>
>>> My main question is how do you configure a new blog to display all blog posts using the same categories that it’s using, i.e. to make it behave similarly to the Blog.WebHome blog? I was thinking that this could be done without UI and by introducing an “aggregate” boolean xproperty in the BlogClass (it would be “false” by default).
>>
>> You said:
>>
>>> Currently the only reason why Blog.WebHome got that special feature is because it is mixed with the WebHome of the Blog space categories. In a normal situation, the WebHome of the category space will display the aggregation except for uncategorised post. Do you really feel there is a great value to have uncategorised post of a given blog aggregated with posts that use the same categories as that blog ? My feeling is that it looks complex and not easy understandable.
>>
>> I was not referring only to uncategorised posts. I was talking about a blog listing all blog posts (even if they come from other blogs) sharing the same categories. Basically the blog aggregation use case.
>> So, for categorised posts, you will get them aggregated in the categories themselves like it is already the case now. And we will keep the “All” link that will point to the WebHome of the space holding the categories and that will display all posts sharing that set of categories. What we are unable to do is finding uncategorised post from blogs that are using that set of categories to list them as well. And the why is related to the lazy link between the post and its blog, see my comments on the design page.
>
> I’m talking about the home page of blogs, not the Categories home page.
>
> Here’s the use case:
> * I Have blog1 using categoriesA
> * I have blog2 using categoriesA
> * When I go to blog1.WebHome I want to see only blog posts from blog1
> * When I go to blog2.WeBhome I want to see only blog posts from blog2

You said (BTW there’s a problem with your replies they use the same style as the previous comments):

> This last two cases are what we propose for now. * I create blog3 that uses categoriesA but when I go to blog3.WebHome I want to see all blog posts from all blogs using categoriesA (even uncategorised ones), i.e. all blog posts from blog1, blog2 and blog3 (if any).
> This last case (apart from the uncategorised ones) is precisely what the categories space WebHome will be, and accessible through the “All” link in the category panel of all three blogs. And the way all blog lists are managed will be through the same BlogPostList macro that will be therefore usable by the end user in a different context if need be. Displaying them including the uncategorised posts of all three blog is much harder to achieve as I have explained, since there is currently no direct link between the posts and their blog. So, I see this as an advanced use case, that would need much more work. Is it a blocker for you ?

It’s both a question of backward compatibility and new use case for me.

Here’s what I’m proposing to be precise:

* Introduce a new “aggregate” xproperty in BlogClass
* When this property is set the blog displays not only the posts from its own space but also all posts from all other blog posts using the same category set
* Set this property for the main blog so that it behaves exactly as it does now before the change
* This will also allows to create new blogs that are aggregating, i.e. it’ll be possible to have more than 1 aggregating blog in the wiki.

Thanks
-Vincent

[snip]