[Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

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[Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

Since we had users asking on the IRC what are the differences between XWiki
and other solutions, it would be a good idea to provide such pages on the
website:

- XWiki and MediaWiki
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki

- XWiki and Confluence
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-Confluence

It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you
find other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.

Additionally, what other solutions would you be interested in seeing
comparison with?

Thanks,
Caty
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Re: [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

> On 13 May 2016, at 17:05, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Since we had users asking on the IRC what are the differences between XWiki
> and other solutions, it would be a good idea to provide such pages on the
> website:
>
> - XWiki and MediaWiki
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki
>
> - XWiki and Confluence
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-Confluence
>
> It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you
> find other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.

+1, I think those are 2 well know wiki solutions and it’s interesting to know how XWiki compares to them.

FTR Gregory Gueneau had started something like this a very long time ago but we never finalised it:
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki+competitors

I haven’t fully read the 2 pages yet but form what I’ve seen so far, it looks of good quality. There are some little stuff to improve here and there but we can do that easily.

> Additionally, what other solutions would you be interested in seeing
> comparison with?

I think it’s already good to start with.

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> Caty

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Re: [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
+1, they looks good

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Since we had users asking on the IRC what are the differences between XWiki
> and other solutions, it would be a good idea to provide such pages on the
> website:
>
> - XWiki and MediaWiki
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki
>
> - XWiki and Confluence
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-Confluence
>
> It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you
> find other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.
>
> Additionally, what other solutions would you be interested in seeing
> comparison with?

I think having Dokuwiki would be nice since it's often one of the
first used wiki in Open Source.

>
> Thanks,
> Caty
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

Paul Libbrecht-2
In reply to this post by vmassol
Any way to make it look better?
Why are the features with a name before in each column?
Also, the "Source: Wikimatrix" statement is not clearly attached to the
section above it or below it.

If there are extra softwares to aim at, would it make sense to add
SharePoint, Office365 and Google Apps?

Paul
>
> It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you
> find other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.
>

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Re: [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

I’ve spoken with Caty and I’d like to explain a bit more this idea. The goal is to “market” XWiki as the best alternative to Confluence or MediaWiki on the home page, in a carousel slide. Those are two very well known wikis and we think it’s interesting to position XWiki as alternatives to them and have the 2 pages proposed by Caty to explain why XWiki is a good alternative.

Here’s the current text: http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Carousel/Section4

Any idea/feedback is welcome.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 13 May 2016, at 17:05, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Since we had users asking on the IRC what are the differences between XWiki
> and other solutions, it would be a good idea to provide such pages on the
> website:
>
> - XWiki and MediaWiki
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki
>
> - XWiki and Confluence
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-Confluence
>
> It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you
> find other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.
>
> Additionally, what other solutions would you be interested in seeing
> comparison with?
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
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Re: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi Bryn,

Thanks for your feedback, lots of good points. See below for a point by point comment.

> On 14 May 2016, at 00:47, Bryn Jeffries <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Useful comparisons, but I wasn't sure who the expected reader would be.

I’ve just sent another email explaining more the context and the reason for this initiative.

> The XWiki vs Confluence comparison feels rather biased so wouldn't be very helpful to someone trying to make a rational decision.

The goal is of course to be as unbiased as possible although it’s never fully possible to do so. At least we need to find out the parts that are not correct and remove them or word them better. The goal is to highlight the strengths of XWiki vs Confluence and MediaWiki.

> The table makes them seem identical (perhaps it would be useful to highlight the actual differences) aside from license.

I agree that I’m not sure we need to list the stuff that are similar and maybe it would be better to only mention the differences. Now that said, I think the idea is also for neophytes to wikis to be able to understand this page. We need to decide which we wish to have.

> Both are listed as having a ticketing plugin, but last time I checked (admittedly over a year ago) I couldn't find a robust plugin anywhere close to Confluence's offerings.

You seem to be knowing Confluence which is great, since it’s been more than 10 years that I haven’t used it myself.

Indeed, I don’t know why there’s this "Ticket plugin” mentioned. I’ll check with Caty. XWiki certainly doesn’t have a full ticket extension right now AFAIK. The
closest I can think of is the Task Application: http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Task+Manager+Application

> The extensions in XWiki really vary in quality, whereas Confluence has a lot of very polished plugins. That's at least been my experience, and I think there's a need to distinguish between high-quality maintained extensions vs. the more hacky ones.

Definitely. I’ve also discussed this with others and it’s time that we start curating extensions and introduce some “Editor Picks” or “Recommended” extensions. I’ll start this in another thread real soon.

> The lack of a markup editor in Confluence is a big difference. Might be worth illustrating further.

Agreed. Maybe the polyglotism too (ability to use various markup syntaxes).

> I think the page hierarchy model is rather difference. Confluence makes chaining of child pages very easy, and access restrictions to child pages is simple to manage. XWiki was a bit clunky by comparison, but that was for 7.1 and maybe the addition of sub-spaces in more recent versions makes this easier to manage.

Could you explain why it’s simpler with Confluence by comparison with, say, XWiki 7.4.3? I think this now at least as easy if not more now. Same for access restrictions to children pages.

See http://platform.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Features/ContentOrganization

> The other big difference, to me, is in documentation. XWiki has changed a lot over the years, particularly in the API,

This is not fully correct. A lot of new APIs have been introduced, showing the dynamism of the XWiki community indeed. However, we take very seriously backward-compatibility (so seriously that breaking it fails our build automatically ;)). So all that worked are still supposed to work. Do you have an example that you’ve noticed where it’s not true (it can happen from time to time when we conscientiously decide to break a recent API that we think nobody uses) .

> and a lot of the material discoverable on the web is out of date.

Any example? That would help to fix them.

> My perception is that Confluence's API has been more stable over successive releases and more effort has been invested in keeping documentation up to date.

It’s certainly true that we need to improve on dev documentation (the user doc is probably ok but the dev one can be improved).

> Much of this difference is just a natural outcome of the proprietary vs. open source backgrounds of each system.

Well our goal is to be open source and still be good on all fronts! :)

Re Confluence, they have lots of people working on the doc vs XWiki where it’s the developers doing it, so it’s more a question of manpower than of proprietary vs open source IMO.

What’s interesting though XWiki is a smaller team, we’re still progressing and innovative at least as fast (if not more) as Confluence IMO. Lots of people have commented that they prefer XWiki over Confluence. Some quotes are on https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/References/Testimonials

Anyway, let’s focus on editing this comparison page to make it as accurate as possible. Keep the comments coming and feel free to edit the doc too if you wish.

Thanks
-Vincent

> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Saturday, 14 May 2016 1:05 AM
>> To: XWiki Mailinglist; XWiki Mailinglist
>> Subject: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and
>> Confluence on xwiki.org
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Since we had users asking on the IRC what are the differences between
>> XWiki and other solutions, it would be a good idea to provide such pages on
>> the
>> website:
>>
>> - XWiki and MediaWiki
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki
>>
>> - XWiki and Confluence
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/XWiki-vs-Confluence
>>
>> It would be great to know if you agree with the listed content and if you find
>> other similarities or distinctions between the above solutions.
>>
>> Additionally, what other solutions would you be interested in seeing
>> comparison with?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty

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Re: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

I finally got the time to make another iteration for these comparison
pages.

If anyone want to make modifications on the texts, they are available at:
- http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/
- http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/XWiki-vs-Confluence/
- http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki/

They should look like:
- Compare:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/XWikiOrg2017/preview_Compare.png
- XWiki vs. Confluence:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/XWikiOrg2017/preview_Confluence.png
- XWiki vs. MediaWiki:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/XWikiOrg2017/preview_MediaWiki.png

I'm curious to know what you think about this version in terms of layout,
validate the content, maybe you have other points that we can compare the
solutions on, maybe I wrote something wrong for the solutions.

Let me know,
Caty

On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Bryn Jeffries <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> Denis Gervalle said:
> > > Yes, we only maintain documentation for the latest version of XWiki on
> > > xwiki.org (not enough manpower to have decent doc for several versions
> > > ATM).
> > >
> >
> > However, for version 6.2.5 and later, you have a way to mitigate this
> > limitation. You can install the Scripting Documentation Application on
> your
> > own wiki (see
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Scripting+Documenta
> > tion+Application).
>
> Thanks, I did not know about this tool, which sounds excellent.
>
> > Unless you are using XWiki prior to 4.2 , using Wiki Component is
> definitely
> > the recommended way to writes Groovy components. Registering
> > components "by hand" from a groovy script has many drawbacks not only
> > the restart one, and you should avoid doing that. The best is of course
> to
> > write the components in Java, and install them as an extension.
>
> I've found the ability to write small Groovy scripts as components has
> been very handy and simpler than writing full extensions in Java. For
> utilities that I don't wish to make into public extensions the burden of a
> small Groovy script into a proper extension seems prohibitive (although
> that may just be that I haven't written one yet, and I'm just a walker at
> the bottom of a hill complaining about how high it looks...). Last time I
> asked there is was no simple way to install private extensions. Also, I
> didn't have much luck writing a proper component in Groovy, which I
> sometimes prefer to Java.
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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Re: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] Comparing XWiki to MediaWiki and Confluence on xwiki.org

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Created Forum entry
https://forum.xwiki.org/t/comparing-xwiki-to-mediawiki-and-confluence-on-xwiki-org/634

Thanks,
Caty

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:11 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I finally got the time to make another iteration for these comparison
> pages.
>
> If anyone want to make modifications on the texts, they are available at:
> - http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/
> - http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/XWiki-vs-Confluence/
> - http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Drafts/Compare/XWiki-vs-MediaWiki/
>
> They should look like:
> - Compare: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/
> XWikiOrg2017/preview_Compare.png
> - XWiki vs. Confluence: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
> bin/download/Proposal/XWikiOrg2017/preview_Confluence.png
> - XWiki vs. MediaWiki: http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/
> bin/download/Proposal/XWikiOrg2017/preview_MediaWiki.png
>
> I'm curious to know what you think about this version in terms of layout,
> validate the content, maybe you have other points that we can compare the
> solutions on, maybe I wrote something wrong for the solutions.
>
> Let me know,
> Caty
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Bryn Jeffries <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Denis Gervalle said:
>> > > Yes, we only maintain documentation for the latest version of XWiki on
>> > > xwiki.org (not enough manpower to have decent doc for several
>> versions
>> > > ATM).
>> > >
>> >
>> > However, for version 6.2.5 and later, you have a way to mitigate this
>> > limitation. You can install the Scripting Documentation Application on
>> your
>> > own wiki (see
>> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Scripti
>> ng+Documenta
>> > tion+Application).
>>
>> Thanks, I did not know about this tool, which sounds excellent.
>>
>> > Unless you are using XWiki prior to 4.2 , using Wiki Component is
>> definitely
>> > the recommended way to writes Groovy components. Registering
>> > components "by hand" from a groovy script has many drawbacks not only
>> > the restart one, and you should avoid doing that. The best is of course
>> to
>> > write the components in Java, and install them as an extension.
>>
>> I've found the ability to write small Groovy scripts as components has
>> been very handy and simpler than writing full extensions in Java. For
>> utilities that I don't wish to make into public extensions the burden of a
>> small Groovy script into a proper extension seems prohibitive (although
>> that may just be that I haven't written one yet, and I'm just a walker at
>> the bottom of a hill complaining about how high it looks...). Last time I
>> asked there is was no simple way to install private extensions. Also, I
>> didn't have much luck writing a proper component in Groovy, which I
>> sometimes prefer to Java.
>> _______________________________________________
>> users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>
>