[Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

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[Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

vmassol
Administrator
Hi devs,

This is especially for Caty who created:
* https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
* https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
* https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
* https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary

Right now these summaries don’t appear on https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/

I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following xproperty values:

* Product: XWiki
* Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
* Is released: true
* Release Date: 31/12/<year>

The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in a LT (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight version by simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing links to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be acceptable. However, the best and easiest is for me to add the ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Sounds ok.

I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
* 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in the
cycle + link to summary, example:
https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/
* 1 that contains the summary, example:
https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary

If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually list
the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
solution.

Thanks,
Caty

On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> This is especially for Caty who created:
> *
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
> *
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
> *
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
> *
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
>
> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
>
> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject
> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following
> xproperty values:
>
> * Product: XWiki
> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
> * Is released: true
> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
>
> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for
> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in a LT
> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight version by
> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing links
> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be acceptable.
> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

> On 17 Dec 2018, at 13:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Sounds ok.
>
> I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
> * 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in the
> cycle + link to summary, example:
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/

Yes I’ve seen this page but I don’t feel it’s very interesting. I think it’s duplicating the existing LT and doesn’t add a lot of value. I’d be in favor of dropping it. WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

> * 1 that contains the summary, example:
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>
> If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually list
> the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
> solution.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> This is especially for Caty who created:
>> *
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>> *
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
>> *
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
>> *
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
>>
>> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
>>
>> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject
>> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following
>> xproperty values:
>>
>> * Product: XWiki
>> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
>> * Is released: true
>> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
>>
>> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for
>> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in a LT
>> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight version by
>> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing links
>> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be acceptable.
>> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
>> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>

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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
I don't want to drop it, since it helped me have a grouped release notes
per cycle.
Especially since it contains release from when the Release Notes app didn't
existed (< 8.2). Also you cannot make the livetable "Version" filter say:
"start with 8.", since you will also have results like "10.8" if you are
filtering for "8.x". So these pages list only the valid releases and in the
correct order.

On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:21 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> > On 17 Dec 2018, at 13:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds ok.
> >
> > I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
> > * 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in the
> > cycle + link to summary, example:
> > https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/
>
> Yes I’ve seen this page but I don’t feel it’s very interesting. I think
> it’s duplicating the existing LT and doesn’t add a lot of value. I’d be in
> favor of dropping it. WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > * 1 that contains the summary, example:
> >
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
> >
> > If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually list
> > the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
> > solution.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi devs,
> >>
> >> This is especially for Caty who created:
> >> *
> >>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
> >> *
> >>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
> >> *
> >>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
> >> *
> >>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
> >>
> >> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
> >> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
> >>
> >> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject
> >> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following
> >> xproperty values:
> >>
> >> * Product: XWiki
> >> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
> >> * Is released: true
> >> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
> >>
> >> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for
> >> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in
> a LT
> >> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight
> version by
> >> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing
> links
> >> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be
> acceptable.
> >> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
> >> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
> >>
> >> WDYT?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>
>
>
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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

> On 18 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I don't want to drop it, since it helped me have a grouped release notes
> per cycle.

I really don’t see the need, could you explain?

> Especially since it contains release from when the Release Notes app didn't
> existed (< 8.2). Also you cannot make the livetable "Version" filter say:
> "start with 8.", since you will also have results like "10.8" if you are
> filtering for "8.x". So these pages list only the valid releases and in the
> correct order.

Honestly this is overkill and I’m pretty sure that it’s ok for users.They can type “8.” for ex and even if that would match “6.4.8”, it’s very much usable IMO.

Regarding RN for versions < 8.2, there’s already a RN Archives page here:
https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives

So what you have put for 7.x, 8.x and 9.x is already a duplicate of what we have at https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives ;)

My only point is that we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel. If you want to improve the RN app then cool but please let’s not redo it! :)

Thanks
-Vincent

>
> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:21 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>>> On 17 Dec 2018, at 13:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sounds ok.
>>>
>>> I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
>>> * 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in the
>>> cycle + link to summary, example:
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/
>>
>> Yes I’ve seen this page but I don’t feel it’s very interesting. I think
>> it’s duplicating the existing LT and doesn’t add a lot of value. I’d be in
>> favor of dropping it. WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> * 1 that contains the summary, example:
>>>
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>>>
>>> If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually list
>>> the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
>>> solution.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>> This is especially for Caty who created:
>>>> *
>>>>
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>>>> *
>>>>
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
>>>> *
>>>>
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
>>>> *
>>>>
>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
>>>>
>>>> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
>>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
>>>>
>>>> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject
>>>> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following
>>>> xproperty values:
>>>>
>>>> * Product: XWiki
>>>> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
>>>> * Is released: true
>>>> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
>>>>
>>>> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for
>>>> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in
>> a LT
>>>> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight
>> version by
>>>> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing
>> links
>>>> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be
>> acceptable.
>>>> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
>>>> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
>>>>
>>>> WDYT?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>

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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

If you think it’s important to see all RN for a cycle, we could implement what I mentioned, ie a second LT showing only cycles (and thus introduce a new xobject). Let me know what you think and whether it’s overkill or not?

Thanks
-Vincent

> Le 18 déc. 2018 à 13:51, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Hi Caty,
>
>> On 18 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I don't want to drop it, since it helped me have a grouped release notes
>> per cycle.
>
> I really don’t see the need, could you explain?
>
>> Especially since it contains release from when the Release Notes app didn't
>> existed (< 8.2). Also you cannot make the livetable "Version" filter say:
>> "start with 8.", since you will also have results like "10.8" if you are
>> filtering for "8.x". So these pages list only the valid releases and in the
>> correct order.
>
> Honestly this is overkill and I’m pretty sure that it’s ok for users.They can type “8.” for ex and even if that would match “6.4.8”, it’s very much usable IMO.
>
> Regarding RN for versions < 8.2, there’s already a RN Archives page here:
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives
>
> So what you have put for 7.x, 8.x and 9.x is already a duplicate of what we have at https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives ;)
>
> My only point is that we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel. If you want to improve the RN app then cool but please let’s not redo it! :)
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:21 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Caty,
>>>
>>>>> On 17 Dec 2018, at 13:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sounds ok.
>>>>
>>>> I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
>>>> * 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in the
>>>> cycle + link to summary, example:
>>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/
>>>
>>> Yes I’ve seen this page but I don’t feel it’s very interesting. I think
>>> it’s duplicating the existing LT and doesn’t add a lot of value. I’d be in
>>> favor of dropping it. WDYT?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> * 1 that contains the summary, example:
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>>>>
>>>> If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually list
>>>> the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
>>>> solution.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Caty
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is especially for Caty who created:
>>>>> *
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
>>>>> *
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
>>>>> *
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
>>>>> *
>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
>>>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject
>>>>> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the following
>>>>> xproperty values:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Product: XWiki
>>>>> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
>>>>> * Is released: true
>>>>> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
>>>>>
>>>>> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass for
>>>>> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries in
>>> a LT
>>>>> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight
>>> version by
>>>>> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing
>>> links
>>>>> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be
>>> acceptable.
>>>>> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
>>>>> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> -Vincent
>
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Re: [Proposal] Include Cycle release notes in the RN LT

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
I've added the ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobject to the 7.x - 10.x
summary pages.

Thanks,
Caty

On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 9:13 AM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> If you think it’s important to see all RN for a cycle, we could implement
> what I mentioned, ie a second LT showing only cycles (and thus introduce a
> new xobject). Let me know what you think and whether it’s overkill or not?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Le 18 déc. 2018 à 13:51, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> a écrit :
> >
> > Hi Caty,
> >
> >> On 18 Dec 2018, at 11:39, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't want to drop it, since it helped me have a grouped release notes
> >> per cycle.
> >
> > I really don’t see the need, could you explain?
> >
> >> Especially since it contains release from when the Release Notes app
> didn't
> >> existed (< 8.2). Also you cannot make the livetable "Version" filter
> say:
> >> "start with 8.", since you will also have results like "10.8" if you are
> >> filtering for "8.x". So these pages list only the valid releases and in
> the
> >> correct order.
> >
> > Honestly this is overkill and I’m pretty sure that it’s ok for
> users.They can type “8.” for ex and even if that would match “6.4.8”, it’s
> very much usable IMO.
> >
> > Regarding RN for versions < 8.2, there’s already a RN Archives page here:
> > https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives
> >
> > So what you have put for 7.x, 8.x and 9.x is already a duplicate of what
> we have at https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/Archives ;)
> >
> > My only point is that we shouldn’t reinvent the wheel. If you want to
> improve the RN app then cool but please let’s not redo it! :)
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 3:21 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Caty,
> >>>
> >>>>> On 17 Dec 2018, at 13:03, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Sounds ok.
> >>>>
> >>>> I just want to let you know that regarding cycles, there are 2 pages:
> >>>> * 1 archive page that has like a toc of links to all the releases in
> the
> >>>> cycle + link to summary, example:
> >>>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/
> >>>
> >>> Yes I’ve seen this page but I don’t feel it’s very interesting. I think
> >>> it’s duplicating the existing LT and doesn’t add a lot of value. I’d
> be in
> >>> favor of dropping it. WDYT?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>>> * 1 that contains the summary, example:
> >>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
> >>>>
> >>>> If we were not to add this xobject, alternatively we could manually
> list
> >>>> the cycle archive page, but I guess the xobject is a more scalable
> >>>> solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Caty
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2018 at 1:30 PM Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi devs,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is especially for Caty who created:
> >>>>> *
> >>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki7x/Summary
> >>>>> *
> >>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki8x/Summary
> >>>>> *
> >>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki9x/Summary
> >>>>> *
> >>>
> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki10x/Summary
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Right now these summaries don’t appear on
> >>>>> https://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’m proposing to simply add a ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass
> xobject
> >>>>> to them so that they can appear in the RN LT, and to use the
> following
> >>>>> xproperty values:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Product: XWiki
> >>>>> * Version: 7.x, 8.x, 9.x, 10.x
> >>>>> * Is released: true
> >>>>> * Release Date: 31/12/<year>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The alternative is more complex and involves creating a new XClass
> for
> >>>>> Cycle Summaries and modifying the home page to list cycle summaries
> in
> >>> a LT
> >>>>> (so that it can scale). Of course we could also do a lightweight
> >>> version by
> >>>>> simply having a link on the home page to a cycle summary page listing
> >>> links
> >>>>> to individual summaries. It would be less visible but could be
> >>> acceptable.
> >>>>> However, the best and easiest is for me to add the
> >>>>> ReleaseNotes.Code.ReleaseNoteClass xobjects to Cycle RN pages.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> -Vincent
> >
>