[Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
29 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi devs,

We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
page language settings)

While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
page
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation

I am interested in what you think about the variants.

Thanks,
Caty
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Jean SIMARD
All propositions are nice.  However, this is my point of view.

# Variant 2.1:
Enumeration probably isn't a good option; it works when you have 2 languages, it
begins to cause problems when you have 20 (visual annoyance, possible problem of
UI alignement)

but visual of 2.1.1 is nice :-)

# Variant 2.2:
This is my preferred view.  I'm not sure which one of the subvariant is the best
but I would eliminate the first one for the same reason as 2.3 (see below).
However, the user will click in order to load another page/content, then a link
like 2.2.2 would be better?

# Variant 2.3:
I'm against adding another big button in the UI.  The strength of Flamingo is
for me that it is far more visually light that Colibri.

# Variant 2.4:
This seems to be a good solution, as well as 2.2.  Just personal, I would go for
the 2.2 instead of 2.4 because language is part of the content and should be
displayed without clicking on a button.

This is only my point of view.

Hope this helps.

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 06:34:26PM +0300, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> page language settings)
>
> While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> page
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
>
> I am interested in what you think about the variants.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

--
Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

O.J. Sousa Rodrigues
2.2.2++ and 2.4++ Both look very good.
What about a combination of designs? When more than 3 languages then
another design will be active!?
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
In reply to this post by Jean SIMARD
Hi Caty.

Nice proposal.

I personally like the variants 2.2.2 and 1.1, with a preference for 2.2.2.

Thanks,
Guillaume


2014-08-18 17:54 GMT+02:00 Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>:

> All propositions are nice.  However, this is my point of view.
>
> # Variant 2.1:
> Enumeration probably isn't a good option; it works when you have 2
> languages, it
> begins to cause problems when you have 20 (visual annoyance, possible
> problem of
> UI alignement)
>
> but visual of 2.1.1 is nice :-)
>
> # Variant 2.2:
> This is my preferred view.  I'm not sure which one of the subvariant is
> the best
> but I would eliminate the first one for the same reason as 2.3 (see below).
> However, the user will click in order to load another page/content, then a
> link
> like 2.2.2 would be better?
>
> # Variant 2.3:
> I'm against adding another big button in the UI.  The strength of Flamingo
> is
> for me that it is far more visually light that Colibri.
>
> # Variant 2.4:
> This seems to be a good solution, as well as 2.2.  Just personal, I would
> go for
> the 2.2 instead of 2.4 because language is part of the content and should
> be
> displayed without clicking on a button.
>
> This is only my point of view.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 06:34:26PM +0300, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> > page language settings)
> >
> > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> > page
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> >
> > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> --
> Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by O.J. Sousa Rodrigues
Hi,

Thanks everyone for your comments.

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 7:51 PM, O.J. Sousa Rodrigues <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2.2.2++ and 2.4++ Both look very good.
> What about a combination of designs? When more than 3 languages then
> another design will be active!?
>

We don't usually do this, especially because with XWiki's complexity it
will make it harder to test it (test every feature/display for 1,3,5,10+
entries).
We try to select the most scalable solution and implement that, but
dynamic/adaptive approaches are interesting as concept :)

So the final solution for the separation will be 1.1 + a 2.x variation.

I like 2.2.2 too.

The problem with 2.4 is that Bootstrap is not supporting sub menus on
dropdowns anymore (since 3.0 because on mobile phones interaction with
them). So pressing that arrow will trigger a modal (just like we do for
Export). That could be a bit weird.

Thanks,
Caty



> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On 08/18/2014 11:34 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> page language settings)
>
> While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> page
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
>
> I am interested in what you think about the variants.
>

2.1 doesn't scale well.

2.2 is clean and simple (especially 2.2.3), but it's not as easy to notice.

Like Jean said, 2.3 makes the menu cluttered, but on the other hand it
is visible enough not to be missed.

2.4 is not easy to find, it hides the translations behind a menu.


-1 for 2.1 and 2.4. Between 2.2 and 2.3, I think people only need to
discover the translation feature once, while the big menu button will
always take up space. So +1 for 2.2.

-1 for 2.2.2, that's a menu and not a link.

Between 2.2.1 and 2.2.3, I find that 2.2.3 is not obvious enough. Are
there any other elements in the skin that implement selections as a
simple text? If not, then for consistency we should use 2.2.1. Users are
used to certain controls, and I'm not sure the most non-technical of our
users will know that they can click on that item even if doesn't look
like a drop down.
--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Guillaume Lerouge
Hi,

nice proposal. I agree that separating interface language management from
content language management will be a welcome improvement :-)

1.1 looks good.

I like 2.1.2. The case of 5+ languages in unlikely to happen a lot.

2.2.1 looks good as well.

Thanks,

Guillaume

On Tue, Aug 19, 2014 at 7:46 PM, Sergiu Dumitriu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 08/18/2014 11:34 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> > page language settings)
> >
> > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> > page
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> >
> > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> >
>
> 2.1 doesn't scale well.
>
> 2.2 is clean and simple (especially 2.2.3), but it's not as easy to notice.
>
> Like Jean said, 2.3 makes the menu cluttered, but on the other hand it
> is visible enough not to be missed.
>
> 2.4 is not easy to find, it hides the translations behind a menu.
>
>
> -1 for 2.1 and 2.4. Between 2.2 and 2.3, I think people only need to
> discover the translation feature once, while the big menu button will
> always take up space. So +1 for 2.2.
>
> -1 for 2.2.2, that's a menu and not a link.
>
> Between 2.2.1 and 2.2.3, I find that 2.2.3 is not obvious enough. Are
> there any other elements in the skin that implement selections as a
> simple text? If not, then for consistency we should use 2.2.1. Users are
> used to certain controls, and I'm not sure the most non-technical of our
> users will know that they can click on that item even if doesn't look
> like a drop down.
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Denis Gervalle-2
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi Cathy,

2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation between
language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active one. I
have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site like
those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue. And as
Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages anyway.
Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose, which is
bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have the
option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
location on screen.

Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having only
initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy solution,
like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be nice
to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an extension.

Thanks,



On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> page language settings)
>
> While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> page
>
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
>
> I am interested in what you think about the variants.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this functionality to
be.
I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per user)
and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference. This is
not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
every day. IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
create a new translation, than when you read one.

Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment with
additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895

Thanks,
Caty


On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Cathy,
>
> 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation between
> language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active one. I
> have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site like
> those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue. And as
> Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages anyway.
> Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose, which is
> bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have the
> option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> location on screen.
>
> Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having only
> initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy solution,
> like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be nice
> to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> extension.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display of
> > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language and
> > page language settings)
> >
> > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this proposal
> > page
> >
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> >
> > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Silvia Rusu
Hi,

+1 for the Interface Language proposal.

For Content Language I like 2.1.1 and 2.2.1, with a preference for
2.2.1, since it scales better.

What I wonder is whether all users will make the distinction between
the Interface Language and Content Language. Below the title we could
elaborate a bit the text to provide more context from
"Available/Current language(s)" to "Available/Current language(s) for
this document / page".
It's true though that that content languages are displayed right below
the title in the 2.1 and 2.2 proposals so normally there shouldn't be
confusions, but it might be interesting to test with a few users
whether they can make the distinction.

Thanks,
Silvia
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Silvia Rusu
Tester & Documentation Writer - XWiki
http://twitter.com/silviarusu
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Andreea Popescu
Hello,

I'm +1 for the this proposal.

I like pretty much these variants: 2.2.1, 2.2.3, 2.3 and 2.4.

Andreea


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Silvia Rusu <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> +1 for the Interface Language proposal.
>
> For Content Language I like 2.1.1 and 2.2.1, with a preference for
> 2.2.1, since it scales better.
>
> What I wonder is whether all users will make the distinction between
> the Interface Language and Content Language. Below the title we could
> elaborate a bit the text to provide more context from
> "Available/Current language(s)" to "Available/Current language(s) for
> this document / page".
> It's true though that that content languages are displayed right below
> the title in the 2.1 and 2.2 proposals so normally there shouldn't be
> confusions, but it might be interesting to test with a few users
> whether they can make the distinction.
>
> Thanks,
> Silvia
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi

2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this functionality to
> be.
> I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per user)
> and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference. This is
> not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> every day.


It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).


> IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> create a new translation, than when you read one.
>
> Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment with
> additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
>
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Cathy,
> >
> > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation between
> > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> one. I
> > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site like
> > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue. And
> as
> > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> anyway.
> > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose, which
> is
> > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have the
> > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > location on screen.
> >
> > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> only
> > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> solution,
> > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> nice
> > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > extension.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display
> of
> > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language
> and
> > > page language settings)
> > >
> > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> proposal
> > > page
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > >
> > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

Thanks,
Guillaume
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

vmassol
Administrator
 



On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Hi
>  
> 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
>  
> > Hi,
> >
> > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this functionality to
> > be.
> > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per user)
> > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference. This is
> > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> > every day.
>  
>  
> It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).

That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing. AFAIK we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we do a public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration indeed.

Thanks
-Vincent

> > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> >
> > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment with
> > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> >
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Cathy,
> > >
> > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation between
> > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> > one. I
> > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site like
> > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue. And
> > as
> > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> > anyway.
> > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose, which
> > is
> > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have the
> > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > > location on screen.
> > >
> > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> > only
> > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > solution,
> > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> > nice
> > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > extension.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display
> > of
> > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language
> > and
> > > > page language settings)
> > > >
> > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > proposal
> > > > page
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > >
> > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:00 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> functionality to
> > > be.
> > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> user)
> > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> This is
> > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> > > every day.
> >
> >
> > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
>
> That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing. AFAIK
> we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we do a
> public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration indeed.
>

We are discussing any default skin with Localization - Multilinguage - Yes.
If you don't want to use it with localization you just don't activate the
functionality.

My remark was that when discussing individual functionality is easy to want
to make each particular functionality pop. The real question is: are the
language markers more important than the Last modified author? More
important than the last modified time? Are they the same? Should language
mark compete with the other action buttons in the content menu? etc.

Anyway the fix for these problems is a 'standard'. In enumeration mode
(2.1.x) the language markers were links and displayed accordingly (2.1.2),
in select mode (2.2.x) they have a dropdown so they could be displayed as
buttons (2.2.1).

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> with
> > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > >
> > >
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > >
> > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> between
> > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> > > one. I
> > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site
> like
> > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue.
> And
> > > as
> > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> > > anyway.
> > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> which
> > > is
> > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have
> the
> > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > > > location on screen.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> > > only
> > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > solution,
> > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> > > nice
> > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > extension.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> display
> > > of
> > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> language
> > > and
> > > > > page language settings)
> > > > >
> > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> better,
> > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation
> is
> > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > proposal
> > > > > page
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Caty
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Jean SIMARD
Something else about the solution 2.1.  Is a code of 2 letters is user friendly?
It maybe easy for people which are using latin characters as native ('fr' for
French, 'en' for English are easy) but does Armenian people know that they must
use 'hy' or Tibetan use 'bo'?

It's really a question, maybe they are and my remark is off topic.

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:10:32PM +0300, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:00 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> > functionality to
> > > > be.
> > > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> > > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> > user)
> > > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> > This is
> > > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> > > > every day.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
> >
> > That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing. AFAIK
> > we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we do a
> > public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration indeed.
> >
>
> We are discussing any default skin with Localization - Multilinguage - Yes.
> If you don't want to use it with localization you just don't activate the
> functionality.
>
> My remark was that when discussing individual functionality is easy to want
> to make each particular functionality pop. The real question is: are the
> language markers more important than the Last modified author? More
> important than the last modified time? Are they the same? Should language
> mark compete with the other action buttons in the content menu? etc.
>
> Anyway the fix for these problems is a 'standard'. In enumeration mode
> (2.1.x) the language markers were links and displayed accordingly (2.1.2),
> in select mode (2.2.x) they have a dropdown so they could be displayed as
> buttons (2.2.1).
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> > with
> > > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > > >
> > > >
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> > between
> > > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> > > > one. I
> > > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site
> > like
> > > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue.
> > And
> > > > as
> > > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> > which
> > > > is
> > > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have
> > the
> > > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > > > > location on screen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> > > > only
> > > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > > solution,
> > > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> > > > nice
> > > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > > extension.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> > display
> > > > of
> > > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> > language
> > > > and
> > > > > > page language settings)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> > better,
> > > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation
> > is
> > > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > > proposal
> > > > > > page
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Caty
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

--
Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Denis Gervalle-2
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:58 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this functionality to
> be.
> I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per user)
> and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference. This
> is

not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> every day.


I do agree for the UI language, I absolutely not seing the content language
that way. In particular, collaboration on multilingual project really need
to easily change languages and see what is available at a glance.


> IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> create a new translation, than when you read one.
>

For this kind of purpose, I would suggest to have a simplified language
management where UI and content language are more tightly linked in view
mode, and managed from a single choice using a 1.1 UI


> Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment with
> additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
>
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895


I know already about that, this is what I mean by fancy. It is not only a
matter of being rigorous here but also to provide flexibility, since it
depends on purposes. As I said, it should not be standard, but it should be
feasible through extensions.

Thanks,


>
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Cathy,
> >
> > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation between
> > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> one. I
> > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site like
> > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue. And
> as
> > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> anyway.
> > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose, which
> is
> > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have the
> > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > location on screen.
> >
> > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> only
> > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> solution,
> > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> nice
> > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > extension.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the display
> of
> > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface language
> and
> > > page language settings)
> > >
> > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look better,
> > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation is
> > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> proposal
> > > page
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > >
> > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Denis Gervalle-2
In reply to this post by Jean SIMARD
On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Something else about the solution 2.1.  Is a code of 2 letters is user
> friendly?
> It maybe easy for people which are using latin characters as native ('fr'
> for
> French, 'en' for English are easy) but does Armenian people know that they
> must
> use 'hy' or Tibetan use 'bo'?
>
> It's really a question, maybe they are and my remark is off topic.
>

It is common to use those abbreviation, see
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=OJ:JOL_2014_247_R_0001
for examples, of course Brazilian Portuguese will need a bit more that 2
letters, we should not forget it. That said, we could also provide some
hints on mouse over. It is not perfect, since touch device does not benefit
it, but when you do not know, you can also just try and you will quickly
learn.



>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:10:32PM +0300, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 12:00 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> > > functionality to
> > > > > be.
> > > > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should
> change
> > > > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> > > user)
> > > > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> > > This is
> > > > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would
> change
> > > > > every day.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
> > >
> > > That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing.
> AFAIK
> > > we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we
> do a
> > > public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration
> indeed.
> > >
> >
> > We are discussing any default skin with Localization - Multilinguage -
> Yes.
> > If you don't want to use it with localization you just don't activate the
> > functionality.
> >
> > My remark was that when discussing individual functionality is easy to
> want
> > to make each particular functionality pop. The real question is: are the
> > language markers more important than the Last modified author? More
> > important than the last modified time? Are they the same? Should language
> > mark compete with the other action buttons in the content menu? etc.
> >
> > Anyway the fix for these problems is a 'standard'. In enumeration mode
> > (2.1.x) the language markers were links and displayed accordingly
> (2.1.2),
> > in select mode (2.2.x) they have a dropdown so they could be displayed as
> > buttons (2.2.1).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> > > with
> > > > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Caty
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> > > between
> > > > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the
> active
> > > > > one. I
> > > > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual
> site
> > > like
> > > > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without
> issue.
> > > And
> > > > > as
> > > > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few
> languages
> > > > > anyway.
> > > > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> > > which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display
> effectively
> > > > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to
> have
> > > the
> > > > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep
> their
> > > > > > location on screen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large.
> Having
> > > > > only
> > > > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > > > solution,
> > > > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu),
> could be
> > > > > nice
> > > > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > > > extension.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> > > display
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> > > language
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > page language settings)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> > > better,
> > > > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the
> separation
> > > is
> > > > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > > > proposal
> > > > > > > page
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Caty
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> --
> Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
In reply to this post by vmassol
2014-08-21 11:00 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

>
>
>
>
> On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > Hi
> >
> > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> functionality to
> > > be.
> > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should change
> > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> user)
> > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> This is
> > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would change
> > > every day.
> >
> >
> > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
>
> That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing. AFAIK
> we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we do a
> public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration indeed.
>

To me Flamingo can be used for a public wiki (without the app bar), which
has not the same meaning as "public website" which is not necessary a
"wiki" (see:
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Leiothrix+Skin ).


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > >
> > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> with
> > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > >
> > >
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > >
> > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> between
> > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the active
> > > one. I
> > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual site
> like
> > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without issue.
> And
> > > as
> > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> > > anyway.
> > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> which
> > > is
> > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display effectively
> > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to have
> the
> > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep their
> > > > location on screen.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large. Having
> > > only
> > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > solution,
> > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could be
> > > nice
> > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > extension.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> display
> > > of
> > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> language
> > > and
> > > > > page language settings)
> > > > >
> > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> better,
> > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the separation
> is
> > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > proposal
> > > > > page
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > >
> > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Caty
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Manuel Smeria-2
Hello,

I'm +1 for this proposal.

I like 2.1.1, 2.2.1 & 2.2.3, but if I were to pick one I'd go with 2.2.1.

Thanks,
Manuel


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2014-08-21 11:00 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> > functionality to
> > > > be.
> > > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should
> change
> > > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> > user)
> > > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> > This is
> > > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would
> change
> > > > every day.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
> >
> > That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing. AFAIK
> > we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we
> do a
> > public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration
> indeed.
> >
>
> To me Flamingo can be used for a public wiki (without the app bar), which
> has not the same meaning as "public website" which is not necessary a
> "wiki" (see:
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Leiothrix+Skin ).
>
>
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> > with
> > > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Caty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > > >
> > > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> > between
> > > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the
> active
> > > > one. I
> > > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual
> site
> > like
> > > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without
> issue.
> > And
> > > > as
> > > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few languages
> > > > anyway.
> > > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> > which
> > > > is
> > > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display
> effectively
> > > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to
> have
> > the
> > > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep
> their
> > > > > location on screen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large.
> Having
> > > > only
> > > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > > solution,
> > > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu), could
> be
> > > > nice
> > > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > > extension.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> > display
> > > > of
> > > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> > language
> > > > and
> > > > > > page language settings)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> > better,
> > > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the
> separation
> > is
> > > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > > proposal
> > > > > > page
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Caty
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal] Interface and Content Language Separation

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

These preferences were so hard to calculate since people didn't used clean
+/-0/1 voted or voted positively on multiple entries, so if I misunderstood
your vote please let me know.

Reminder: Proposal available at
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation

__Short version__

So the majority of the participants liked version 2.2 with some discussion
whether to choose variant 2.2.1 or 2.2.2.

So the current votes are:
** 2.2.1: (-0 Jean) (+1 Sergiu) (+0 GL) (+1 Silvia) (+0 Andreea) (+1 Manu)
(+1 Caty)
** 2.2.2: (+1 Jean) (+0 Sousa) (+1 GD) (+0 Caty) (-1 Sergiu)

** 2.2.1: { '1': (-0) (+4) } { '0': (-1) (+2) } = +4
** 2.2.2: { '1': (-1) (+2) } { '0': (-0) (+2) } = +1

If you want to change your vote or cast another vote, please reply to this
message. Until then, the winning solution is 2.2.1



__Long version__

Some conclusions:

* 2.1: (-0 Jean) (-1 Sergiu)
** 2.1.1: (+0 Jean) (+1 Denis) (+0 Silvia) (+0 Manu)
** 2.1.2: (+1 GL) (+0 Denis)

* 2.2: (+1 Jean) (+1 Sergiu)
** 2.2.1: (-0 Jean) (+1 Sergiu) (+0 GL) (+1 Silvia) (+0 Andreea) (+1 Manu)
** 2.2.2: (+1 Jean) (+0 Sousa) (+1 GD) (+1 Caty) (-1 Sergiu)
** 2.2.3: (+0 Sergiu) (+0 Andreea) (+0 Manu)

* 2.3: (-0 Jean) (+/-0 Sergiu) (+0 Andreea)

* 2.4: (+0 Jean) (+0 Sousa) (-0 Caty) (-1 Sergiu) (+0 Andreea)

So this means:

*  2.1:    { '1': (-1) (+0) } { '0': (-1) (+0) } = -1
** 2.1.1: { '1': (-0) (+1) } { '0': (-0) (+3) } = +1
** 2.1.2: { '1': (-0) (+1) } { '0': (-0) (+1) } = +1

* 2.2:     { '1': (-0) (+2) } { '0': (-0) (+0) } = +2
** 2.2.1: { '1': (-0) (+3) } { '0': (-1) (+2) } = +3
** 2.2.2: { '1': (-1) (+3) } { '0': (-0) (+1) } = +2
** 2.2.3: { '1': (-0) (+0) } { '0': (-0) (+3) } = 0

* 2.3:     { '1': (-0) (+0) } { '0': (-2) (+2) } = 0

* 2.4:     { '1': (-1) (+0) } { '0': (-1) (+3) } = -1

So the majority of the participants liked version 2.2 with some discussion
whether to choose variant 2.2.1 or 2.2.2. The votes were:
** 2.2.1: (-0 Jean) (+1 Sergiu) (+0 GL) (+1 Silvia) (+0 Andreea) (+1 Manu)
** 2.2.2: (+1 Jean) (+0 Sousa) (+1 GD) (+1 Caty) (-1 Sergiu)

Adjustments:

Since Segiu voted -1 on 2.2.2 we couldn't pick this version until the
committer changes his vote, given the arguments.

Given Sergiu's arguments I want to change my vote for 2.2.2 from +1 -> +0
and give variant 2.2.1 a +1 vote.
My rationale behind this change is that:
* initially I preferred using links to display the language in order to be
consistent with edit mode (language selection)
* because of space constraints I believe is better to use a menu to display
them
* since it's a menu, I agree it should have the standard menu look
* from an implementation point of view is easier to use the Bootstrap's
menu component than to write a custom one for our case

So the current votes are:
** 2.2.1: (-0 Jean) (+1 Sergiu) (+0 GL) (+1 Silvia) (+0 Andreea) (+1 Manu)
(+1 Caty)
** 2.2.2: (+1 Jean) (+0 Sousa) (+1 GD) (+0 Caty) (-1 Sergiu)

** 2.2.1: { '1': (-0) (+4) } { '0': (-1) (+2) } = +4
** 2.2.2: { '1': (-1) (+2) } { '0': (-0) (+2) } = +1

If you want to change your vote or cast another vote, please reply to this
message. Until then, the winning solution is 2.2.1

Thanks,
Caty


On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Manuel Smeria <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm +1 for this proposal.
>
> I like 2.1.1, 2.2.1 & 2.2.3, but if I were to pick one I'd go with 2.2.1.
>
> Thanks,
> Manuel
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 1:29 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2014-08-21 11:00 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21 Aug 2014 at 10:57:36, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> > > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi
> > > >
> > > > 2014-08-21 9:58 GMT+02:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) :
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > First of all we need to decide how prominent we want this
> > > functionality to
> > > > > be.
> > > > > I would make it more transparent, since theoretically you should
> > change
> > > > > your language preference just once (in the Administration, and per
> > > user)
> > > > > and all the pages should be displayed according to that preference.
> > > This is
> > > > > not something that need to be highly visible and that you would
> > change
> > > > > every day.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's not true on a public wiki (like Wikipedia).
> > >
> > > That’s a good point, we need to agree which skin we’re discussing.
> AFAIK
> > > we’re discussing Flamingo which is NOT a public web site skin. When we
> > do a
> > > public web site skin we would need to take this into consideration
> > indeed.
> > >
> >
> > To me Flamingo can be used for a public wiki (without the app bar), which
> > has not the same meaning as "public website" which is not necessary a
> > "wiki" (see:
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Leiothrix+Skin ).
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > > IMO it's more important to be better displayed when you want to
> > > > > create a new translation, than when you read one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding the flag to represent languages you can read this comment
> > > with
> > > > > additional information about why we wouldn't do it like that
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-9512?focusedCommentId=77895&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-77895
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Caty
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 9:37 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Cathy,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2.1.1 is the one I prefer, 2.1.2 is also good but the separation
> > > between
> > > > > > language should be more clear, and it is less easy to see the
> > active
> > > > > one. I
> > > > > > have no fear about the scaling issue, even heavily multilingual
> > site
> > > like
> > > > > > those of the European Commission use such enumeration without
> > issue.
> > > And
> > > > > as
> > > > > > Guillaume said, it is really rare to have more than a few
> languages
> > > > > anyway.
> > > > > > Other proposal implies multiple click/touch for the same purpose,
> > > which
> > > > > is
> > > > > > bad IMO for content. It is also important to only display
> > effectively
> > > > > > available languages, but with an enum, it could be also good to
> > have
> > > the
> > > > > > option to also display unavailable one greyed, so language keep
> > their
> > > > > > location on screen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regarding the UI language, 1.1 is fine, but maybe a bit large.
> > Having
> > > > > only
> > > > > > initial in the bar would be better IMO. Having also a more fancy
> > > > > solution,
> > > > > > like what I have done with bluebird (see http://softec.lu),
> could
> > be
> > > > > nice
> > > > > > to have as well... or a easy way to customize it that way with an
> > > > > > extension.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 5:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We have http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10745 (Improve the
> > > display
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > available languages in Flamingo) which is related to
> > > > > > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6402 (Separate Interface
> > > language
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > page language settings)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While in Flamingo we could just make the language links look
> > > better,
> > > > > > > without changing the functionality, for the future, the
> > separation
> > > is
> > > > > > > something we might want to tackle, that's why I've created this
> > > > > proposal
> > > > > > > page
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/InterfaceAndContentLanguageSeparation
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am interested in what you think about the variants.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Caty
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
12