[Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

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[Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

vmassol
Administrator
Hi everyone,

Some time back XWiki SAS, the company who started XWiki had a free  
online farm on xwiki.com. This farm was closed for new projects a few  
months ago after XWiki SAS realized it didn't have the manpower (or  
finance) to support it in a professional way. XWiki SAS still has a  
professional farm offering but it's not a free farm (see http://www.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Services/#HHosting)
.

I'd like to discuss with you the idea of offering a free farm managed  
by the xwiki community and under the xwiki.org umbrella. In essence it  
means there would be 2 farms available:
* a paying one which is on xwiki.com, for professional needs
* a free one on xwiki.org for universities, individuals or anyone not  
requiring guaranteed support/availability at all times

Here's how it would work:

* No support guarantee. All support done on the xwiki.org user mailing  
list.
* No stability guarantee. We would always install the latest Platform/
XE/XEM version on it and it would serve as a stability test for the  
xwiki development team. Obviously the community will always try to  
make it as stable as possible but that's not guaranteed.
* There will be several members of the community who'll have admin  
access on the farm.
* We will reduce admin tasks by offering a simple UI on the farm  
itself (restart, see memory stats, see blocking requests, ban a wiki,  
etc)
* It will be open to anyone. However the target users will be  
technical people who can support themselves to some extent. We won't  
control that but it'll be mentioned on the registration page.

XWiki SAS would pay for the machine, hosting and the initial  
installation.

I have 2 questions for you:

1) As a user of it, would you be interested by such a farm? Do you  
think it's interesting for the xwiki project to have such a free farm?

2) As a community member, would you be willing to help administer it/
support it? For this farm to work we need to find several members of  
the xwiki community willing to help administer it. Here are the tasks  
I can think of:
- work on the welcome page content for the farm
- work on the FAQ for the farm (like "what do I do if I've lost my  
password", etc)
- help answer user questions on the list (this can and should be be  
done by everyone)

Thanks
-Vincent, with 2 hats: community developer and CTO of XWiki SAS

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

Ricardo Rodríguez-2
Vincent Massol wrote:

Hi Vincent,
> I have 2 questions for you:
>
> 1) As a user of it, would you be interested by such a farm? Do you  
> think it's interesting for the xwiki project to have such a free farm?
>  

During the last years I've keep track of several Open Source and
commercial products that created something more or less similar to witch
you are proposing now and I've always found it quite useful both for
users and developers. As an user, I could move some of the contents
being added to our own server to the farm once I understand its functioning.
> 2) As a community member, would you be willing to help administer it/
> support it? For this farm to work we need to find several members of  
> the xwiki community willing to help administer it. Here are the tasks  
> I can think of:
> - work on the welcome page content for the farm
> - work on the FAQ for the farm (like "what do I do if I've lost my  
> password", etc)
> - help answer user questions on the list (this can and should be be  
> done by everyone)
Provided I am a simple user, yes. We have decided here to stick with
XWiki as our collaborative environment, thus to be involved in a larger
community will always helps us. You could think it is an egoist point of
view, but it is the only one we can afford at this very moment.

Just our 2 cents,

Ricardo

--
Ricardo Rodríguez
Your XEN ICT Team
(moving to Your EPEC Network ICT Team)

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

Sachin Mittal
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hi Vincent,
People who are interested in free xwiki and want to use it as an experimental tool can download it and play with it. It costs nothing for them.
As far as I have seen that students and other such individuals seldom become paying customers. They typically use for project work etc.

I think hosted solution should focus on paying customers only unless you want to test the scalability of xwiki real time by giving free access.

Thanks
Sachin


Message: 6
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:32:41 +0100
From: Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
Subject: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm
       on       xwiki.org?
To: XWiki Developers <[hidden email]>, XWiki Users <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: < [hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi everyone,

Some time back XWiki SAS, the company who started XWiki had a free
online farm on xwiki.com. This farm was closed for new projects a few
months ago after XWiki SAS realized it didn't have the manpower (or
finance) to support it in a professional way. XWiki SAS still has a
professional farm offering but it's not a free farm (see http://www.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Services/#HHosting)
.

I'd like to discuss with you the idea of offering a free farm managed
by the xwiki community and under the xwiki.org umbrella. In essence it
means there would be 2 farms available:
* a paying one which is on xwiki.com, for professional needs
* a free one on xwiki.org for universities, individuals or anyone not
requiring guaranteed support/availability at all times

Here's how it would work:

* No support guarantee. All support done on the xwiki.org user mailing
list.
* No stability guarantee. We would always install the latest Platform/
XE/XEM version on it and it would serve as a stability test for the
xwiki development team. Obviously the community will always try to
make it as stable as possible but that's not guaranteed.
* There will be several members of the community who'll have admin
access on the farm.
* We will reduce admin tasks by offering a simple UI on the farm
itself (restart, see memory stats, see blocking requests, ban a wiki,
etc)
* It will be open to anyone. However the target users will be
technical people who can support themselves to some extent. We won't
control that but it'll be mentioned on the registration page.

XWiki SAS would pay for the machine, hosting and the initial
installation.

I have 2 questions for you:

1) As a user of it, would you be interested by such a farm? Do you
think it's interesting for the xwiki project to have such a free farm?

2) As a community member, would you be willing to help administer it/
support it? For this farm to work we need to find several members of
the xwiki community willing to help administer it. Here are the tasks
I can think of:
- work on the welcome page content for the farm
- work on the FAQ for the farm (like "what do I do if I've lost my
password", etc)
- help answer user questions on the list (this can and should be be
done by everyone)

Thanks
-Vincent, with 2 hats: community developer and CTO of XWiki SAS



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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

Gabe Wong
In reply to this post by vmassol
Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Some time back XWiki SAS, the company who started XWiki had a free  
> online farm on xwiki.com. This farm was closed for new projects a few  
> months ago after XWiki SAS realized it didn't have the manpower (or  
> finance) to support it in a professional way. XWiki SAS still has a  
> professional farm offering but it's not a free farm (see http://www.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Services/#HHosting)
> .
>
> I'd like to discuss with you the idea of offering a free farm managed  
> by the xwiki community and under the xwiki.org umbrella. In essence it  
> means there would be 2 farms available:
> * a paying one which is on xwiki.com, for professional needs
> * a free one on xwiki.org for universities, individuals or anyone not  
> requiring guaranteed support/availability at all times
>
> Here's how it would work:
>
> * No support guarantee. All support done on the xwiki.org user mailing  
> list.
> * No stability guarantee. We would always install the latest Platform/
> XE/XEM version on it and it would serve as a stability test for the  
> xwiki development team. Obviously the community will always try to  
> make it as stable as possible but that's not guaranteed.
> * There will be several members of the community who'll have admin  
> access on the farm.
> * We will reduce admin tasks by offering a simple UI on the farm  
> itself (restart, see memory stats, see blocking requests, ban a wiki,  
> etc)
>  
Hi Vincent, sounds like a great idea. My company specializes in SaaS
Enablement and Automation software development.
We would be glad to donate software and expertize for automating the
admin tasks.


--
Regards

Gabe Wong
NGASI AppServer Manager
JAVA AUTOMATION and SaaS Enablement
<a href=http://www.ngasi.com>http://www.ngasi.com</a>
NEW! 8.0 - Centrally manage multiple physical servers

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

rrodrigueznt
In reply to this post by Sachin Mittal
sachin mittal wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
> People who are interested in free xwiki and want to use it as an
> experimental tool can download it and play with it. It costs nothing
> for them.
> As far as I have seen that students and other such individuals seldom
> become paying customers. They typically use for project work etc.
>
> I think hosted solution should focus on paying customers only unless
> you want to test the scalability of xwiki real time by giving free access.

Following this reasoning, how does Netcipia (http://www.netcipia.net)fit 
in the proposed schema?

Cheers,

Ricardo

--
Ricardo Rodríguez
Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Ricardo,

On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:27 PM, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network  
ICT Team wrote:

> sachin mittal wrote:
>> Hi Vincent,
>> People who are interested in free xwiki and want to use it as an
>> experimental tool can download it and play with it. It costs nothing
>> for them.
>> As far as I have seen that students and other such individuals seldom
>> become paying customers. They typically use for project work etc.
>>
>> I think hosted solution should focus on paying customers only unless
>> you want to test the scalability of xwiki real time by giving free  
>> access.
>
> Following this reasoning, how does Netcipia (http://
> www.netcipia.net)fit
> in the proposed schema?

Netcipia is another farm that could be seen as a kind of competitor to  
this new xwiki.org farm. However there are some differences:
* the xwiki.org farm will be using the default UI (same as XWiki  
Enterprise) and the same features
* it'll be supported by the xwiki community
* it'll have latest versions installed at all times
* there's no business model behind this xwiki.org farm

I think the target is really different. Netcipia's idea is to propose  
ways for users to sell their content online whereas this farm will be  
more for hosting "intranets"/"web sites".

Anyway the free xwiki.org farm is not fully decided yet. I'd like to  
see more opinions form the xwiki users and dev community about it.

Thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

goldring, richard
In reply to this post by rrodrigueznt
Hi Vincent,

It sounds like a good idea. It would provide:
* a place to test out the latest XWiki builds and quickly identify issues
and resolve them
* a free place for people to host their websites

I'd certainly consider it for my non-work related material.

Regards,

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf
Of Vincent Massol
Sent: 23 January 2008 09:32
To: XWiki Users
Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] [Proposal] New free and community-managed
farm on xwiki.org?


Hi Ricardo,

On Jan 22, 2008, at 10:27 PM, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network  
ICT Team wrote:

> sachin mittal wrote:
>> Hi Vincent,
>> People who are interested in free xwiki and want to use it as an
>> experimental tool can download it and play with it. It costs nothing
>> for them.
>> As far as I have seen that students and other such individuals seldom
>> become paying customers. They typically use for project work etc.
>>
>> I think hosted solution should focus on paying customers only unless
>> you want to test the scalability of xwiki real time by giving free  
>> access.
>
> Following this reasoning, how does Netcipia (http://
> www.netcipia.net)fit
> in the proposed schema?

Netcipia is another farm that could be seen as a kind of competitor to  
this new xwiki.org farm. However there are some differences:
* the xwiki.org farm will be using the default UI (same as XWiki  
Enterprise) and the same features
* it'll be supported by the xwiki community
* it'll have latest versions installed at all times
* there's no business model behind this xwiki.org farm

I think the target is really different. Netcipia's idea is to propose  
ways for users to sell their content online whereas this farm will be  
more for hosting "intranets"/"web sites".

Anyway the free xwiki.org farm is not fully decided yet. I'd like to  
see more opinions form the xwiki users and dev community about it.

Thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

Karim-Pierre Maalej
In reply to this post by vmassol
        That would certainly increase public interest into XWiki. And beyond
the profits that have been described before, it could also be a good
test to see where the documentation is failing, so we could improve it.
More users means both more feedback and more hands to complete and
correct the doc.

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Re: [Proposal] New free and community-managed farm on xwiki.org?

timchippingtonderrick
In reply to this post by vmassol
I think that this would be fine. We have used the free xwiki to support
a charitable research and information organisation in the coordination
of comments, discussions and formal responses to a number of government
and health-service proposals, and it has been very successfully used by
a collection of largely non-technical users with comparatively few
problems. That in itself says a lot about xwiki's usability. In fact,
now the senior members (mostly women aged 50-70+, who a few years ago
were having problems understanding how to use email) are now quite happy
to use xwiki once we set it up for them, and several of them would
really miss it as it has made a very obvious difference to how people
can interact and cooperate online.

As a charitable organisation, we have very little available
infrastructure, no office space, and our active members are spread over
the whole of the UK - this makes it very difficult for us to provide our
own hosted services such as a wiki. The free farm proposed should allow
us to continue to use this invaluable technology. I'd love to be able to
help support the farm, but at present we have far too much to do running
our own small company and putting several extra hours effort every day
into the charitable work. Maybe next year...

Tim

Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Some time back XWiki SAS, the company who started XWiki had a free  
> online farm on xwiki.com. This farm was closed for new projects a few  
> months ago after XWiki SAS realized it didn't have the manpower (or  
> finance) to support it in a professional way. XWiki SAS still has a  
> professional farm offering but it's not a free farm (see http://www.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Services/#HHosting)
> .
>
> I'd like to discuss with you the idea of offering a free farm managed  
> by the xwiki community and under the xwiki.org umbrella. In essence it  
> means there would be 2 farms available:
> * a paying one which is on xwiki.com, for professional needs
> * a free one on xwiki.org for universities, individuals or anyone not  
> requiring guaranteed support/availability at all times
>
> Here's how it would work:
>
> * No support guarantee. All support done on the xwiki.org user mailing  
> list.
> * No stability guarantee. We would always install the latest Platform/
> XE/XEM version on it and it would serve as a stability test for the  
> xwiki development team. Obviously the community will always try to  
> make it as stable as possible but that's not guaranteed.
> * There will be several members of the community who'll have admin  
> access on the farm.
> * We will reduce admin tasks by offering a simple UI on the farm  
> itself (restart, see memory stats, see blocking requests, ban a wiki,  
> etc)
> * It will be open to anyone. However the target users will be  
> technical people who can support themselves to some extent. We won't  
> control that but it'll be mentioned on the registration page.
>
> XWiki SAS would pay for the machine, hosting and the initial  
> installation.
>
> I have 2 questions for you:
>
> 1) As a user of it, would you be interested by such a farm? Do you  
> think it's interesting for the xwiki project to have such a free farm?
>
> 2) As a community member, would you be willing to help administer it/
> support it? For this farm to work we need to find several members of  
> the xwiki community willing to help administer it. Here are the tasks  
> I can think of:
> - work on the welcome page content for the farm
> - work on the FAQ for the farm (like "what do I do if I've lost my  
> password", etc)
> - help answer user questions on the list (this can and should be be  
> done by everyone)
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent, with 2 hats: community developer and CTO of XWiki SAS
>
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>  


--
Tim Chippington Derrick
Chippington Derrick Consultants Ltd
Tel: 01276 508949
Mob: 07971 997948
http://www.chippingtonderrick.co.uk

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