[Proposal] Simplified Home Page

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[Proposal] Simplified Home Page

vmassol
Administrator
Hi devs,

As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
- JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
- Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x

I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on the email thread some expressed their doubts.

I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch": http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw

I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):

"
BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and instead have it contain:
- explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
- explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
- encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the content he wishes instead

I think this would solve the following issues:
- users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take ownership of the wiki as theirs.
- explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page

Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.


If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much appreciated.

But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or not.

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
I think it is a good idea to remove the dashboard, because the Main page
should be the easiest possible to edit, in the spirit of this video:
http://www.commoncraft.com/video/wikis

Keep it simple, stupid.


2014-09-16 15:23 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

> Hi devs,
>
> As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>
> I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
> the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>
> I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>
> I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>
> "
> BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
> the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> instead have it contain:
> - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the
> content he wishes instead
>
> I think this would solve the following issues:
> - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>
> Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
> in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> “
>
> If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> appreciated.
>
> But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
> not.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Guillaume Delhumeau ([hidden email])
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Marius Dumitru Florea
In reply to this post by vmassol
We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This is
an important change. I can't decide yet..

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>
> I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>
> I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch": http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>
> I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>
> "
> BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and instead have it contain:
> - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the content he wishes instead
>
> I think this would solve the following issues:
> - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>
> Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> “
>
> If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much appreciated.
>
> But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or not.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

vmassol
Administrator

On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This is
> an important change. I can't decide yet..

Yes I know…

Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t decided the content for that new home page yet.

However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard. 

The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even give an example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to make the home page a dashboard.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> >
> > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> >
> > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch": http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> >
> > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> >
> > "
> > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and instead have it contain:
> > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the content he wishes instead
> >
> > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> >
> > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > “
> >
> > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much appreciated.
> >
> > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or not.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Denis Gervalle-2
Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to make
the HomePage easily configurable.
I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which does not
seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is weird,
imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird, while
being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).

So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current page as
the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
WebHome ?
Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a different
home page ?

WDYT ?


On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email]))
> wrote:
>
> > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This is
> > an important change. I can't decide yet..
>
> Yes I know…
>
> Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t decided
> the content for that new home page yet.
>
> However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they
> might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made
> clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
>
> The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even give an
> example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to make
> the home page a dashboard.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > >
> > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because
> on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > >
> > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > >
> > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > >
> > > "
> > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway)
> and instead have it contain:
> > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put
> the content he wishes instead
> > >
> > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > >
> > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > “
> > >
> > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have
> a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> appreciated.
> > >
> > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea
> or not.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

vmassol
Administrator
 



On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to make
> the HomePage easily configurable.
> I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which does not
> seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is weird,
> imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird, while
> being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).
>  
> So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current page as
> the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
> WebHome ?
> Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a different
> home page ?
>  
> WDYT ?

Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.

But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s the dashboard!

And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.

And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a dashboard.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]  
> wrote:
>  
> >
> > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email]))
> > wrote:
> >
> > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This is
> > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> >
> > Yes I know…
> >
> > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t decided
> > the content for that new home page yet.
> >
> > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they
> > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made
> > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> >
> > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even give an
> > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to make
> > the home page a dashboard.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > >
> > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because
> > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > >
> > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > >
> > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway)
> > and instead have it contain:
> > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put
> > the content he wishes instead
> > > >
> > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > >
> > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > > “
> > > >
> > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have
> > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> > appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea
> > or not.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > -Vincent
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>  
>  
>  
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Yacine Kebir
I think that is a good idea to make a navigation easy to a simple user, we
could give to user a liberty to customize easily his home page with app who
he want, for the implementation i propose an idea to simplified the
customization:

- Make a page in the admin or in the editing of page who we will display
all off applications of the wiki and under this block we display the actual
home page, and we can added or delete the applications by using a drop and
drag, this idea is appreciated by users.

- and for editing the current app used on the home page we can added a
button edit behind any app, and when we click we display a lightbox to
change this app, the idea to use a lightbox is just to stay on the home
page and make other changes easily.

WDYT ?


2014-09-17 9:13 GMT+01:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

>
>
>
>
> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
> [hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to make
> > the HomePage easily configurable.
> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which does
> not
> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is weird,
> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird, while
> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).
> >
> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current page
> as
> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
> > WebHome ?
> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a different
> > home page ?
> >
> > WDYT ?
>
> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
>
> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s the
> dashboard!
>
> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.
>
> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
> dashboard.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email]))
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This
> is
> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> > >
> > > Yes I know…
> > >
> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t
> decided
> > > the content for that new home page yet.
> > >
> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they
> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made
> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> > >
> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even
> give an
> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to
> make
> > > the home page a dashboard.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > > >
> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
> because
> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel
> anyway)
> > > and instead have it contain:
> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
> pages)
> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and
> put
> > > the content he wishes instead
> > > > >
> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it
> easy
> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
> take
> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > > > “
> > > > >
> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
> have
> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
> that I’m
> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> further
> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> much
> > > appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good
> idea
> > > or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > devs mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
<http://www.xwiki.com/>*Yacine KEBIR*
Web Designer / Front End Developer
 [hidden email]

*Mobile: *+213 550 749 033
*Web Site : *www.xwiki.com
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Denis Gervalle-2
In reply to this post by vmassol
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
> [hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to make
> > the HomePage easily configurable.
> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which does
> not
> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is weird,
> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird, while
> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).
> >
> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current page
> as
> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
> > WebHome ?
> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a different
> > home page ?
> >
> > WDYT ?
>
> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
>

Sorry, I wasn't aware. From what I understand of the description I just
read in the issue, the customization will work just once ?
What happen when you have customized the homepage (a) by choosing another
one, or (b) by entering your own content ?
Does the edit button still work differently ?
If so, I support the Main.WebHome is still the only home, and this not what
I am talking about, or you have make some magic.
Can you explain a bit more how your implementation works ?

What I was proposing were more in the line of the "Use this image as my
desktop background" and "Use this image as the login background".
From anywhere, any user would be able to say, "Use this page as my
homepage", and an admin would additionally say "Use this page as the
default homepage". And that page truly became the home, it is not an
include mechanism, and Main.WebHome could be thrashed.


> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s the
> dashboard!
>

If the home page is no more the actual home page, the discussion about
editing the homepage became pointless. If you point directly to the
Dashboard, and you make the dashboard not editable by default, we are just
fine IMO. Why wanting the home page to be editable when you can edit any
page and make it the home or your home ?


> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.


> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
> dashboard.
>

Regarding these explanations, you simply need a "Get Started" widget on the
Dashboard. This one should not be very detailed, but link to more helpful
information. These information are more a matter of an Help Application
than a HomePage Application. And this Help Application should also be
accessible from the menu, and work with contextual information to be even
more helpful.

Moreover, the home page should be useful for the flavor that install it,
and should not be some fake page that you need to edit to make it useful.
The wiki should work right away, without customization, for the very basic
users.
I hope this clarify my vision of the homepage that I have probably too
briefly define initially.

WDYT ?


> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email]))
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This
> is
> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> > >
> > > Yes I know…
> > >
> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t
> decided
> > > the content for that new home page yet.
> > >
> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they
> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made
> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> > >
> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even
> give an
> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to
> make
> > > the home page a dashboard.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > > >
> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
> because
> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel
> anyway)
> > > and instead have it contain:
> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
> pages)
> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and
> put
> > > the content he wishes instead
> > > > >
> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it
> easy
> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
> take
> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > > > “
> > > > >
> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
> have
> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
> that I’m
> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> further
> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> much
> > > appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good
> idea
> > > or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > devs mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

jerem
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hi,

2014-09-16 15:23 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:

> Hi devs,
>
> As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>
> I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
> the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>
> I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>
> I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>
> "
> BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
> the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> instead have it contain:
> - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the
> content he wishes instead
>

Some idea: what can be seen more and more (on HTC Sense, in many Android
apps, etc), is that the first time you (or anyone) access a page /
resource, you get indications and explanations displayed in a layer above
the content.
Once you have read them, you close them in order to access the content, or
if there are, more explanations are displayed. You could also have an
option to display them again later, like a wizard.
I think it would maybe fit with xwiki, I can imagine some arrows and text
drawn on top of a page, showing to the user how and where are the menus,
explaining what's a page, space, wiki, etc. I've never really seen this in
a browser though, so technically it's maybe difficult or impossible.

It could fit also because those explanations, for a user, are transient.
Once you know the concepts, you don't need them displayed each time you
access the wiki, on the home page.
But as not all users have the same background, you may want to leave them
for new comers. If you can detect that a user is "new", you can display
this information only to those who need it, and leave "real" content on the
home page (like, a dashboard, a description of what your site is about, or
both, or something else).

I also like the idea of choosing your home page (the app you did), but
maybe it would be more "xwiki" to allow choosing this page in preferences.
- In WebPreferences of a space, you can override the default home page of
the space ("Space.WebHome"), only with pages from that Space
- in a wiki preferences, you can override the default home page of the
wiki, only with pages from the "Main" space


>
> I think this would solve the following issues:
> - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>
> Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
> in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> “
>
> If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> appreciated.
>
> But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
> not.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Marius Dumitru Florea
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Jeremie BOUSQUET
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 2014-09-16 15:23 GMT+02:00 [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
>> - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
>> - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>>
>> I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
>> the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>>
>> I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
>> started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
>> http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>>
>> I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>>
>> "
>> BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
>> the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
>> instead have it contain:
>> - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
>> - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
>> - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the
>> content he wishes instead
>>
>

> Some idea: what can be seen more and more (on HTC Sense, in many Android
> apps, etc), is that the first time you (or anyone) access a page /
> resource, you get indications and explanations displayed in a layer above
> the content.
> Once you have read them, you close them in order to access the content, or
> if there are, more explanations are displayed. You could also have an
> option to display them again later, like a wizard.
> I think it would maybe fit with xwiki, I can imagine some arrows and text
> drawn on top of a page, showing to the user how and where are the menus,
> explaining what's a page, space, wiki, etc. I've never really seen this in
> a browser though, so technically it's maybe difficult or impossible.

See http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWiki5Minutes
. I know some people that have used
http://usablica.github.io/intro.js/ , but there are others,
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/GuideJS .

>
> It could fit also because those explanations, for a user, are transient.
> Once you know the concepts, you don't need them displayed each time you
> access the wiki, on the home page.
> But as not all users have the same background, you may want to leave them
> for new comers. If you can detect that a user is "new", you can display
> this information only to those who need it, and leave "real" content on the
> home page (like, a dashboard, a description of what your site is about, or
> both, or something else).
>
> I also like the idea of choosing your home page (the app you did), but
> maybe it would be more "xwiki" to allow choosing this page in preferences.
> - In WebPreferences of a space, you can override the default home page of
> the space ("Space.WebHome"), only with pages from that Space
> - in a wiki preferences, you can override the default home page of the
> wiki, only with pages from the "Main" space
>
>
>>
>> I think this would solve the following issues:
>> - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
>> (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
>> ownership of the wiki as theirs.
>> - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>>
>> Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
>> in the wiki/spaces/pages.
>> “
>>
>> If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
>> simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
>> proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
>> discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
>> appreciated.
>>
>> But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
>> not.
>>
>> WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Marius Dumitru Florea
In reply to this post by Denis Gervalle-2
On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
>> [hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to make
>> > the HomePage easily configurable.
>> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which does
>> not
>> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is weird,
>> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird, while
>> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).
>> >
>> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current page
>> as
>> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
>> > WebHome ?
>> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a different
>> > home page ?
>> >
>> > WDYT ?
>>
>> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
>>
>
> Sorry, I wasn't aware. From what I understand of the description I just
> read in the issue, the customization will work just once ?
> What happen when you have customized the homepage (a) by choosing another
> one, or (b) by entering your own content ?
> Does the edit button still work differently ?
> If so, I support the Main.WebHome is still the only home, and this not what
> I am talking about, or you have make some magic.
> Can you explain a bit more how your implementation works ?
>
> What I was proposing were more in the line of the "Use this image as my
> desktop background" and "Use this image as the login background".
> From anywhere, any user would be able to say, "Use this page as my
> homepage", and an admin would additionally say "Use this page as the
> default homepage".

> And that page truly became the home, it is not an
> include mechanism, and Main.WebHome could be thrashed.

One advantage is that you won't have to merge Main.WebHome when you
upgrade. Even if DW does a 3-way merge, generally it's better/safer
not to edit the documents from the default distribution.

>
>
>> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s the
>> dashboard!
>>
>
> If the home page is no more the actual home page, the discussion about
> editing the homepage became pointless. If you point directly to the
> Dashboard, and you make the dashboard not editable by default, we are just
> fine IMO. Why wanting the home page to be editable when you can edit any
> page and make it the home or your home ?
>
>
>> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.
>
>
>> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
>> dashboard.
>>
>
> Regarding these explanations, you simply need a "Get Started" widget on the
> Dashboard. This one should not be very detailed, but link to more helpful
> information. These information are more a matter of an Help Application
> than a HomePage Application. And this Help Application should also be
> accessible from the menu, and work with contextual information to be even
> more helpful.
>
> Moreover, the home page should be useful for the flavor that install it,
> and should not be some fake page that you need to edit to make it useful.
> The wiki should work right away, without customization, for the very basic
> users.
> I hope this clarify my vision of the homepage that I have probably too
> briefly define initially.
>
> WDYT ?
>
>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
>> > > [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email]))
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default. This
>> is
>> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
>> > >
>> > > Yes I know…
>> > >
>> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t
>> decided
>> > > the content for that new home page yet.
>> > >
>> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since they
>> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be made
>> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
>> > >
>> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even
>> give an
>> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want to
>> make
>> > > the home page a dashboard.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > > -Vincent
>> > >
>> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> > > > > Hi devs,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
>> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
>> > > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
>> because
>> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
>> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
>> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>> > > > >
>> > > > > "
>> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
>> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel
>> anyway)
>> > > and instead have it contain:
>> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
>> pages)
>> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
>> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and
>> put
>> > > the content he wishes instead
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
>> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it
>> easy
>> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
>> take
>> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
>> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
>> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
>> > > > > “
>> > > > >
>> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
>> have
>> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
>> that I’m
>> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
>> further
>> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
>> much
>> > > appreciated.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good
>> idea
>> > > or not.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > WDYT?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks
>> > > > > -Vincent
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > devs mailing list
>> > > > > [hidden email]
>> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > devs mailing list
>> > > > [hidden email]
>> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > devs mailing list
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Denis Gervalle
>> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Eduard Moraru
Some clarifications regarding the implementation of this proposal that I
wanted to add here for reference:

1. Stop including the dashboard in the homepage, it is available as an app
in the app bar on the left
2. Come up with some introductory text for the homepage on (x)wiki concepts
and quickstart pointers
3. Remove the welcome gadget from the dashboard and the Main.Welcome pages
since they are no longer needed
4. Solve the navigation issue

Thanks,
Eduard

On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
> >> [hidden email])) wrote:
> >>
> >> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to
> make
> >> > the HomePage easily configurable.
> >> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which
> does
> >> not
> >> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is
> weird,
> >> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird,
> while
> >> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be ommitted).
> >> >
> >> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current
> page
> >> as
> >> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the default
> >> > WebHome ?
> >> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a
> different
> >> > home page ?
> >> >
> >> > WDYT ?
> >>
> >> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
> >>
> >
> > Sorry, I wasn't aware. From what I understand of the description I just
> > read in the issue, the customization will work just once ?
> > What happen when you have customized the homepage (a) by choosing another
> > one, or (b) by entering your own content ?
> > Does the edit button still work differently ?
> > If so, I support the Main.WebHome is still the only home, and this not
> what
> > I am talking about, or you have make some magic.
> > Can you explain a bit more how your implementation works ?
> >
> > What I was proposing were more in the line of the "Use this image as my
> > desktop background" and "Use this image as the login background".
> > From anywhere, any user would be able to say, "Use this page as my
> > homepage", and an admin would additionally say "Use this page as the
> > default homepage".
>
> > And that page truly became the home, it is not an
> > include mechanism, and Main.WebHome could be thrashed.
>
> One advantage is that you won't have to merge Main.WebHome when you
> upgrade. Even if DW does a 3-way merge, generally it's better/safer
> not to edit the documents from the default distribution.
>
> >
> >
> >> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s
> the
> >> dashboard!
> >>
> >
> > If the home page is no more the actual home page, the discussion about
> > editing the homepage became pointless. If you point directly to the
> > Dashboard, and you make the dashboard not editable by default, we are
> just
> > fine IMO. Why wanting the home page to be editable when you can edit any
> > page and make it the home or your home ?
> >
> >
> >> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.
> >
> >
> >> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
> >> dashboard.
> >>
> >
> > Regarding these explanations, you simply need a "Get Started" widget on
> the
> > Dashboard. This one should not be very detailed, but link to more helpful
> > information. These information are more a matter of an Help Application
> > than a HomePage Application. And this Help Application should also be
> > accessible from the menu, and work with contextual information to be even
> > more helpful.
> >
> > Moreover, the home page should be useful for the flavor that install it,
> > and should not be some fake page that you need to edit to make it useful.
> > The wiki should work right away, without customization, for the very
> basic
> > users.
> > I hope this clarify my vision of the homepage that I have probably too
> > briefly define initially.
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> >
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> >> > > [hidden email](mailto:
> [hidden email]))
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default.
> This
> >> is
> >> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> >> > >
> >> > > Yes I know…
> >> > >
> >> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t
> >> decided
> >> > > the content for that new home page yet.
> >> > >
> >> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since
> they
> >> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be
> made
> >> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> >> > >
> >> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even
> >> give an
> >> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want
> to
> >> make
> >> > > the home page a dashboard.
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks
> >> > > -Vincent
> >> > >
> >> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> > > > > Hi devs,
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> >> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots:
> http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> >> > > > > - Discussion thread:
> http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
> >> because
> >> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the
> thread
> >> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> >> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > "
> >> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> >> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel
> >> anyway)
> >> > > and instead have it contain:
> >> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
> >> pages)
> >> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> >> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own
> and
> >> put
> >> > > the content he wishes instead
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> >> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it
> >> easy
> >> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
> >> take
> >> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> >> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> >> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> >> > > > > “
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
> >> have
> >> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
> >> that I’m
> >> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> >> further
> >> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> >> much
> >> > > appreciated.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a
> good
> >> idea
> >> > > or not.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > WDYT?
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Thanks
> >> > > > > -Vincent
> >> > > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > > devs mailing list
> >> > > > > [hidden email]
> >> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > > devs mailing list
> >> > > > [hidden email]
> >> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > devs mailing list
> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Denis Gervalle
> >> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > devs mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Denis Gervalle
> > SOFTEC sa - CEO
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Guillaume Lerouge
Hi,

once taking into account all of Edy's remarks, it feels a bit like what we
actually need is a better UI for the {{include /}} macro :-)

And then use that macro on the home page of the wiki.

Guillaume


On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Some clarifications regarding the implementation of this proposal that I
> wanted to add here for reference:
>
> 1. Stop including the dashboard in the homepage, it is available as an app
> in the app bar on the left
> 2. Come up with some introductory text for the homepage on (x)wiki concepts
> and quickstart pointers
> 3. Remove the welcome gadget from the dashboard and the Main.Welcome pages
> since they are no longer needed
> 4. Solve the navigation issue
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM, [hidden email] <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
> > >> [hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is to
> > make
> > >> > the HomePage easily configurable.
> > >> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which
> > does
> > >> not
> > >> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is
> > weird,
> > >> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird,
> > while
> > >> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be
> ommitted).
> > >> >
> > >> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current
> > page
> > >> as
> > >> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the
> default
> > >> > WebHome ?
> > >> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a
> > different
> > >> > home page ?
> > >> >
> > >> > WDYT ?
> > >>
> > >> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Sorry, I wasn't aware. From what I understand of the description I just
> > > read in the issue, the customization will work just once ?
> > > What happen when you have customized the homepage (a) by choosing
> another
> > > one, or (b) by entering your own content ?
> > > Does the edit button still work differently ?
> > > If so, I support the Main.WebHome is still the only home, and this not
> > what
> > > I am talking about, or you have make some magic.
> > > Can you explain a bit more how your implementation works ?
> > >
> > > What I was proposing were more in the line of the "Use this image as my
> > > desktop background" and "Use this image as the login background".
> > > From anywhere, any user would be able to say, "Use this page as my
> > > homepage", and an admin would additionally say "Use this page as the
> > > default homepage".
> >
> > > And that page truly became the home, it is not an
> > > include mechanism, and Main.WebHome could be thrashed.
> >
> > One advantage is that you won't have to merge Main.WebHome when you
> > upgrade. Even if DW does a 3-way merge, generally it's better/safer
> > not to edit the documents from the default distribution.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when it’s
> > the
> > >> dashboard!
> > >>
> > >
> > > If the home page is no more the actual home page, the discussion about
> > > editing the homepage became pointless. If you point directly to the
> > > Dashboard, and you make the dashboard not editable by default, we are
> > just
> > > fine IMO. Why wanting the home page to be editable when you can edit
> any
> > > page and make it the home or your home ?
> > >
> > >
> > >> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.
> > >
> > >
> > >> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
> > >> dashboard.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Regarding these explanations, you simply need a "Get Started" widget on
> > the
> > > Dashboard. This one should not be very detailed, but link to more
> helpful
> > > information. These information are more a matter of an Help Application
> > > than a HomePage Application. And this Help Application should also be
> > > accessible from the menu, and work with contextual information to be
> even
> > > more helpful.
> > >
> > > Moreover, the home page should be useful for the flavor that install
> it,
> > > and should not be some fake page that you need to edit to make it
> useful.
> > > The wiki should work right away, without customization, for the very
> > basic
> > > users.
> > > I hope this clarify my vision of the homepage that I have probably too
> > > briefly define initially.
> > >
> > > WDYT ?
> > >
> > >
> > >> Thanks
> > >> -Vincent
> > >>
> > >> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > >> > > [hidden email](mailto:
> > [hidden email]))
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default.
> > This
> > >> is
> > >> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Yes I know…
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We haven’t
> > >> decided
> > >> > > the content for that new home page yet.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page since
> > they
> > >> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also be
> > made
> > >> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could even
> > >> give an
> > >> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who want
> > to
> > >> make
> > >> > > the home page a dashboard.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks
> > >> > > -Vincent
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > >> > > > > Hi devs,
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > >> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots:
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > >> > > > > - Discussion thread:
> > http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
> > >> because
> > >> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the
> > thread
> > >> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > >> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > "
> > >> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning
> towards
> > >> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel
> > >> anyway)
> > >> > > and instead have it contain:
> > >> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
> > >> pages)
> > >> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > >> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own
> > and
> > >> put
> > >> > > the content he wishes instead
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > >> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes
> it
> > >> easy
> > >> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them
> to
> > >> take
> > >> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > >> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > >> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > >> > > > > “
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and
> instead
> > >> have
> > >> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
> > >> that I’m
> > >> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> > >> further
> > >> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also
> be
> > >> much
> > >> > > appreciated.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a
> > good
> > >> idea
> > >> > > or not.
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > WDYT?
> > >> > > > >
> > >> > > > > Thanks
> > >> > > > > -Vincent
>
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Eduard Moraru
Hi Guillaume,

Are you sure you are on the right thread? :)

Thanks,
Eduard

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Guillaume Lerouge <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> once taking into account all of Edy's remarks, it feels a bit like what we
> actually need is a better UI for the {{include /}} macro :-)
>
> And then use that macro on the home page of the wiki.
>
> Guillaume
> ᐧ
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Some clarifications regarding the implementation of this proposal that I
> > wanted to add here for reference:
> >
> > 1. Stop including the dashboard in the homepage, it is available as an
> app
> > in the app bar on the left
> > 2. Come up with some introductory text for the homepage on (x)wiki
> concepts
> > and quickstart pointers
> > 3. Remove the welcome gadget from the dashboard and the Main.Welcome
> pages
> > since they are no longer needed
> > 4. Solve the navigation issue
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 10:30 AM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:13 AM, [hidden email] <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 17 Sep 2014 at 08:57:35, Denis Gervalle ([hidden email](mailto:
> > > >> [hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Well, there is also another way to tackle that problem, which is
> to
> > > make
> > > >> > the HomePage easily configurable.
> > > >> > I have never understand why the home should be Main.WebHome, which
> > > does
> > > >> not
> > > >> > seems meaningful, in particular in french. Even the Main space is
> > > weird,
> > > >> > imagine a Hand space in english ;) (WebHome could also seen weird,
> > > while
> > > >> > being more usual words that I feel hurt less, and could be
> > ommitted).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > So, back on track, why not having an easy way to say, "set current
> > > page
> > > >> as
> > > >> > the HomePage", and to in fact use the Dashboard itself as the
> > default
> > > >> > WebHome ?
> > > >> > Why the hell should we have to destroy some interface to have a
> > > different
> > > >> > home page ?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WDYT ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Denis, this is essentially what my Home Page Application does.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I wasn't aware. From what I understand of the description I
> just
> > > > read in the issue, the customization will work just once ?
> > > > What happen when you have customized the homepage (a) by choosing
> > another
> > > > one, or (b) by entering your own content ?
> > > > Does the edit button still work differently ?
> > > > If so, I support the Main.WebHome is still the only home, and this
> not
> > > what
> > > > I am talking about, or you have make some magic.
> > > > Can you explain a bit more how your implementation works ?
> > > >
> > > > What I was proposing were more in the line of the "Use this image as
> my
> > > > desktop background" and "Use this image as the login background".
> > > > From anywhere, any user would be able to say, "Use this page as my
> > > > homepage", and an admin would additionally say "Use this page as the
> > > > default homepage".
> > >
> > > > And that page truly became the home, it is not an
> > > > include mechanism, and Main.WebHome could be thrashed.
> > >
> > > One advantage is that you won't have to merge Main.WebHome when you
> > > upgrade. Even if DW does a 3-way merge, generally it's better/safer
> > > not to edit the documents from the default distribution.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> But it doesn’t solve the main problem: editing the home page when
> it’s
> > > the
> > > >> dashboard!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > If the home page is no more the actual home page, the discussion
> about
> > > > editing the homepage became pointless. If you point directly to the
> > > > Dashboard, and you make the dashboard not editable by default, we are
> > > just
> > > > fine IMO. Why wanting the home page to be editable when you can edit
> > any
> > > > page and make it the home or your home ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> And it doesn’t solve the issue of the explanation of the concepts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> And it doesn’t invite the user to modify the home page when it’s a
> > > >> dashboard.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Regarding these explanations, you simply need a "Get Started" widget
> on
> > > the
> > > > Dashboard. This one should not be very detailed, but link to more
> > helpful
> > > > information. These information are more a matter of an Help
> Application
> > > > than a HomePage Application. And this Help Application should also be
> > > > accessible from the menu, and work with contextual information to be
> > even
> > > > more helpful.
> > > >
> > > > Moreover, the home page should be useful for the flavor that install
> > it,
> > > > and should not be some fake page that you need to edit to make it
> > useful.
> > > > The wiki should work right away, without customization, for the very
> > > basic
> > > > users.
> > > > I hope this clarify my vision of the homepage that I have probably
> too
> > > > briefly define initially.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Thanks
> > > >> -Vincent
> > > >>
> > > >> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:52 PM, [hidden email]
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > On 16 Sep 2014 at 15:47:59, Marius Dumitru Florea (
> > > >> > > [hidden email](mailto:
> > > [hidden email]))
> > > >> > > wrote:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > We won't have the activity stream on the home page by default.
> > > This
> > > >> is
> > > >> > > > an important change. I can't decide yet..
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Yes I know…
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Now we could decide to still have it on the home page. We
> haven’t
> > > >> decided
> > > >> > > the content for that new home page yet.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > However adding it may intimidate users from editing the page
> since
> > > they
> > > >> > > might be worried about loosing that feature. But it could also
> be
> > > made
> > > >> > > clear that the Wiki’s Activity is available from the Dashboard.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > The instructions explaining that the page can be edited could
> even
> > > >> give an
> > > >> > > example about how to include the Dashboard page for those who
> want
> > > to
> > > >> make
> > > >> > > the home page a dashboard.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Thanks
> > > >> > > -Vincent
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > >> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application,
> see:
> > > >> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots:
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > >> > > > > - Discussion thread:
> > > http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing
> it
> > > >> because
> > > >> > > on the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the
> > > thread
> > > >> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > >> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > "
> > > >> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning
> > towards
> > > >> > > removing the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App
> panel
> > > >> anyway)
> > > >> > > and instead have it contain:
> > > >> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis,
> spaces,
> > > >> pages)
> > > >> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > >> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his
> own
> > > and
> > > >> put
> > > >> > > the content he wishes instead
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > >> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this
> makes
> > it
> > > >> easy
> > > >> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for
> them
> > to
> > > >> take
> > > >> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > >> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for
> easy
> > > >> > > navigation in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > >> > > > > “
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and
> > instead
> > > >> have
> > > >> > > a simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and
> for
> > > >> that I’m
> > > >> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal
> for
> > > >> further
> > > >> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also
> > be
> > > >> much
> > > >> > > appreciated.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a
> > > good
> > > >> idea
> > > >> > > or not.
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > WDYT?
> > > >> > > > >
> > > >> > > > > Thanks
> > > >> > > > > -Vincent
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Anca Luca
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hello all,

so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if people
need it they can access it independently.

In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for besides
the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the
wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that what
dashboard means?

By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a dashboard,
as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing. So
multiple possibilities:
1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not, I
don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good _default_
overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard. In this case, we
improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the
"default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an overview
that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and implement
an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard at
the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because the
dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the
homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by default,
but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and drag
& drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for example
of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or UI
extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new version
of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default gadget
and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the dashboard
editor in it.

The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in Dashboard.WebHome, is
for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of all
sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for
spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not need to
be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.

Anca

On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
>
> I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
> the email thread some expressed their doubts.
>
> I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
>
> I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
>
> "
> BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
> the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> instead have it contain:
> - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the
> content he wishes instead
>
> I think this would solve the following issues:
> - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
>
> Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
> in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> “
>
> If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> appreciated.
>
> But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
> not.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Eduard Moraru
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if people
> need it they can access it independently.
>
> In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
> beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for besides
> the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
> overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the
> wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that what
> dashboard means?
>

The idea of this proposal was that the homepage should be customized by the
admin. It should be a homepage. Instead of a Dashboard, it should contain
information about the purpose of the wiki, information for newcomers,
information about the organization, some video, etc. All of this we plan to
encourage the admins to customize so that they "take ownership" of their
wiki instead of seeing it as just a tool with default settings. Some may
see disadvantages to this, and prefer default tools, but others may see the
value of getting the user/admin involved.

The Dashboard should be seen as a place to go to in order to see what is
going on. Dashboards in the wild also tend to be customizable per users (we
technically support that as well, but it could be improved, i.e. have a
default user dashboard in the 'My dashboard' section in the user profile
instead of the empty space that is right now in view mode, promote it more,
etc.). They also tend to be used by more technical people

Once the admin is involved and now aware of how to do things, he can easily
include the dashboard on the homepage if that is his view on the purpose of
his wiki. We can even propose it in the default content of the homepage.

What you choose depends a lot on the usecase you have for your wiki, i.e.
what flavor you`re using. For example, a dashboard is good for
intranet/groupware but not that good for public websites. We are
considering here what we want the default experience to offer/encourage and
maybe we should not really focus on/be influenced by any of the flavors/use
cases we are having in mind.


>
> By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a dashboard,
> as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing. So
> multiple possibilities:
> 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not, I
> don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good _default_
> overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard.


This is not part of the use cases [1] extracted from previous discussions.
Are you proposing that we add "offer a good overview of the wiki" as a new
use case/goal or is this just a rewording of UC5 (navigation) ?

Thanks,
Eduard

[1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageUseCases


> In this case, we
> improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the
> "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an overview
> that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
> 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and implement
> an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard at
> the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
> Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because the
> dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the
> homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by default,
> but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and drag
> & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for example
> of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or UI
> extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new version
> of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default gadget
> and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the dashboard
> editor in it.
>
> The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in Dashboard.WebHome, is
> for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of all
> sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for
> spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not need to
> be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
> dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
> dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.
>
> Anca
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> >
> > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
> > the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> >
> > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> >
> > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> >
> > "
> > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
> > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> > instead have it contain:
> > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put
> the
> > content he wishes instead
> >
> > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> >
> > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
> > in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > “
> >
> > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> > appreciated.
> >
> > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
> > not.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Anca Luca
Hi Anca,

Some comments

1) I agree about making the home page a simple page to teach the first user (admin usually) the main concepts of the wiki and to let him customize it for his/her own need. I agree that we need to teach the user a few things, like using the include macro (this allows the user to make the home page be any of the existing page, includes pages from extensions he/she installed). Explaining how to create a Dashboard could be interesting too.

2a) If we implement 1) then we should modify the Dashboard so that it's oriented fully towards being a dashboard to show what's going on in the wiki.
2b) Alternatively to 2a) we could bundle a few more Dashboards by default in the Dashboard Application (say we have 2 by default) and make Dashboard.WebHome be some kind of AWM application that lists all Dashboard that exist in the wiki in a LiveTable with a button to create new Dashboards. This would allow to explain in 1) how to perform an include and then direct the user to 2b) to create a new Dashboard that can then be included.
2c) Alternatively to 2a) we could decide that the Dashboard application doesn't register itself in the App Panel and instead introduce a new whatsnew application with a "What's New" page (or rather reuse the existing Index Application and add a "What's New" page in it) and make it appear in the App Panel.
2d) We could also do 2b) + 2c), ie. have both "Dashboards" and "What's New" entries in the Application Panel
2e) Alternatively to 2c) or 2d), we could also have a What's New feature in the nav bar somewhere (possibly even both in the Wiki menu and in the Space menu for the wiki-level what's new and space-level what's new)

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

On 17 Oct 2014 at 18:26:36, Anca Luca ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if people
> need it they can access it independently.
>
> In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
> beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for besides
> the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
> overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the
> wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that what
> dashboard means?
>
> By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a dashboard,
> as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing. So
> multiple possibilities:
> 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not, I
> don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good _default_
> overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard. In this case, we
> improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the
> "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an overview
> that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
> 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and implement
> an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard at
> the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
> Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because the
> dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the
> homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by default,
> but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and drag
> & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for example
> of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or UI
> extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new version
> of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default gadget
> and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the dashboard
> editor in it.
>
> The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in Dashboard.WebHome, is
> for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of all
> sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for
> spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not need to
> be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
> dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
> dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.
>
> Anca
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email]
> wrote:
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> >
> > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because on
> > the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> >
> > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> >
> > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> >
> > "
> > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards removing
> > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> > instead have it contain:
> > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put the
> > content he wishes instead
> >
> > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to take
> > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> >
> > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy navigation
> > in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > “
> >
> > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that I’m
> > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for further
> > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be much
> > appreciated.
> >
> > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea or
> > not.
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Anca Luca
In reply to this post by Eduard Moraru
Hello Edi,


On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if
> people
> > need it they can access it independently.
> >
> > In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
> > beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for
> besides
> > the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
> > overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the
> > wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that
> what
> > dashboard means?
> >
>
> The idea of this proposal was that the homepage should be customized by the
> admin. It should be a homepage. Instead of a Dashboard, it should contain
> information about the purpose of the wiki, information for newcomers,
> information about the organization, some video, etc. All of this we plan to
> encourage the admins to customize so that they "take ownership" of their
> wiki instead of seeing it as just a tool with default settings. Some may
> see disadvantages to this, and prefer default tools, but others may see the
> value of getting the user/admin involved.
>
> The Dashboard should be seen as a place to go to in order to see what is
> going on. Dashboards in the wild also tend to be customizable per users (we
> technically support that as well, but it could be improved, i.e. have a
> default user dashboard in the 'My dashboard' section in the user profile
> instead of the empty space that is right now in view mode, promote it more,
> etc.). They also tend to be used by more technical people
>
> Once the admin is involved and now aware of how to do things, he can easily
> include the dashboard on the homepage if that is his view on the purpose of
> his wiki. We can even propose it in the default content of the homepage.
>
> What you choose depends a lot on the usecase you have for your wiki, i.e.
> what flavor you`re using. For example, a dashboard is good for
> intranet/groupware but not that good for public websites. We are
> considering here what we want the default experience to offer/encourage and
> maybe we should not really focus on/be influenced by any of the flavors/use
> cases we are having in mind.
>
>
> >
> > By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a
> dashboard,
> > as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing. So
> > multiple possibilities:
> > 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not, I
> > don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good _default_
> > overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard.
>
>
> This is not part of the use cases [1] extracted from previous discussions.
> Are you proposing that we add "offer a good overview of the wiki" as a new
> use case/goal or is this just a rewording of UC5 (navigation) ?
>

I need to think a little more about this in order to make a complete
answer, but I read the list of usecases and I remarked one thing:

In all UC1 to UC5, I think your "user" is more of an "admin" than a user. I
see the following flow in working with a wiki:
Alice downloads the wiki and plays around with it locally, tests it and
checks its features. Then, she is convinced by the tool and decides to move
this to the next level and install the wiki on a server (or get it
installed) so that she can collaborate with her colleagues, Bob, Billy and
Bogdan. To me Alice is not a user, she's more like a wiki admin. Then when
the wiki is installed on the server, the three B boys are the users and
Alice might become a user as well, or might always stay a little more
admin. When she moves from her private tests to a public tool, Alice
prepares the homepage of the wiki so that it matches the purpose of the
wiki and the B boys. Alice will need to "UC3: The user needs to be able to
easily replace the home page with his content" but the B boys won't.

I think that the admin (Alice) homepage needs cannot be analysed
independently from the user (Bob, Billy and Bogdan) homepage needs, because
we risk to provide the admin with customization tools that they will never
need because the user will never need such a customization.


Thanks,
Anca


>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageUseCases
>
>
> > In this case, we
> > improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the
> > "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an
> overview
> > that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
> > 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and
> implement
> > an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard at
> > the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
> > Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because the
> > dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the
> > homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by default,
> > but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and
> drag
> > & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for
> example
> > of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or UI
> > extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new version
> > of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default
> gadget
> > and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the
> dashboard
> > editor in it.
> >
> > The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in Dashboard.WebHome,
> is
> > for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of all
> > sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for
> > spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not need
> to
> > be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
> > dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
> > dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.
> >
> > Anca
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi devs,
> > >
> > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > >
> > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because
> on
> > > the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > >
> > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > >
> > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > >
> > > "
> > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> removing
> > > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> > > instead have it contain:
> > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and put
> > the
> > > content he wishes instead
> > >
> > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
> take
> > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > >
> > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> navigation
> > > in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > “
> > >
> > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead have a
> > > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that
> I’m
> > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> further
> > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> much
> > > appreciated.
> > >
> > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good idea
> or
> > > not.
> > >
> > > WDYT?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Vincent
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Eduard Moraru
Hi Anca,

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello Edi,
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if
> > people
> > > need it they can access it independently.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
> > > beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for
> > besides
> > > the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
> > > overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of the
> > > wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't that
> > what
> > > dashboard means?
> > >
> >
> > The idea of this proposal was that the homepage should be customized by
> the
> > admin. It should be a homepage. Instead of a Dashboard, it should contain
> > information about the purpose of the wiki, information for newcomers,
> > information about the organization, some video, etc. All of this we plan
> to
> > encourage the admins to customize so that they "take ownership" of their
> > wiki instead of seeing it as just a tool with default settings. Some may
> > see disadvantages to this, and prefer default tools, but others may see
> the
> > value of getting the user/admin involved.
> >
> > The Dashboard should be seen as a place to go to in order to see what is
> > going on. Dashboards in the wild also tend to be customizable per users
> (we
> > technically support that as well, but it could be improved, i.e. have a
> > default user dashboard in the 'My dashboard' section in the user profile
> > instead of the empty space that is right now in view mode, promote it
> more,
> > etc.). They also tend to be used by more technical people
> >
> > Once the admin is involved and now aware of how to do things, he can
> easily
> > include the dashboard on the homepage if that is his view on the purpose
> of
> > his wiki. We can even propose it in the default content of the homepage.
> >
> > What you choose depends a lot on the usecase you have for your wiki, i.e.
> > what flavor you`re using. For example, a dashboard is good for
> > intranet/groupware but not that good for public websites. We are
> > considering here what we want the default experience to offer/encourage
> and
> > maybe we should not really focus on/be influenced by any of the
> flavors/use
> > cases we are having in mind.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a
> > dashboard,
> > > as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same thing.
> So
> > > multiple possibilities:
> > > 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or not,
> I
> > > don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good
> _default_
> > > overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard.
> >
> >
> > This is not part of the use cases [1] extracted from previous
> discussions.
> > Are you proposing that we add "offer a good overview of the wiki" as a
> new
> > use case/goal or is this just a rewording of UC5 (navigation) ?
> >
>
> I need to think a little more about this in order to make a complete
> answer, but I read the list of usecases and I remarked one thing:
>
> In all UC1 to UC5, I think your "user" is more of an "admin" than a user. I
> see the following flow in working with a wiki:
> Alice downloads the wiki and plays around with it locally, tests it and
> checks its features. Then, she is convinced by the tool and decides to move
> this to the next level and install the wiki on a server (or get it
> installed) so that she can collaborate with her colleagues, Bob, Billy and
> Bogdan. To me Alice is not a user, she's more like a wiki admin. Then when
> the wiki is installed on the server, the three B boys are the users and
> Alice might become a user as well, or might always stay a little more
> admin. When she moves from her private tests to a public tool, Alice
> prepares the homepage of the wiki so that it matches the purpose of the
> wiki and the B boys. Alice will need to "UC3: The user needs to be able to
> easily replace the home page with his content" but the B boys won't.
>
>
I think you`ve perfectly described what we want to do with the homepage
(*in this proposal*), and yes, the user we are interested in in this case
is the admin (Alice) that we want to encourage to take ownership of the
wiki she is going to present to the wiki's users (B-boys) instead of
offering them a vanilla "Untitled Document" experience :)

I think that the admin (Alice) homepage needs cannot be analysed
> independently from the user (Bob, Billy and Bogdan) homepage needs, because
> we risk to provide the admin with customization tools that they will never
> need because the user will never need such a customization.
>

In a way, that is exactly what the Dashboard is doing: it is *a tool* that
the user is presented with by default and which he might not need (and has
no idea how to get rid of).

This proposal was about promoting more the wiki itself (not customization
tools) and empowering the user that will deploy it so that he can provide
an optimum experience to his users. We can`t really do much for the variety
of use cases and users out there that might be using XWiki, but the admin
can (*if he is able to*, and this is what this proposal is pushing for).

The Dashboard is nice, no argument there, but it is just *a tool*, among
others, that the admin could choose to use or not.

Still, this is currently just one proposal amongst others [1].

Thanks,
Eduard

----------
[1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposals


>
> Thanks,
> Anca
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Eduard
> >
> > [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageUseCases
> >
> >
> > > In this case, we
> > > improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change the
> > > "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an
> > overview
> > > that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
> > > 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and
> > implement
> > > an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard
> at
> > > the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
> > > Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because
> the
> > > dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make the
> > > homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by
> default,
> > > but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and
> > drag
> > > & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for
> > example
> > > of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or
> UI
> > > extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new
> version
> > > of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default
> > gadget
> > > and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the
> > dashboard
> > > editor in it.
> > >
> > > The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in
> Dashboard.WebHome,
> > is
> > > for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of
> all
> > > sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used for
> > > spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not
> need
> > to
> > > be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
> > > dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
> > > dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.
> > >
> > > Anca
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email] <
> [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi devs,
> > > >
> > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > >
> > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it because
> > on
> > > > the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > >
> > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > >
> > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > >
> > > > "
> > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> > removing
> > > > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway) and
> > > > instead have it contain:
> > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces, pages)
> > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and
> put
> > > the
> > > > content he wishes instead
> > > >
> > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it easy
> > > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them to
> > take
> > > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > >
> > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > navigation
> > > > in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > > “
> > > >
> > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
> have a
> > > > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for that
> > I’m
> > > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> > further
> > > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> > much
> > > > appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good
> idea
> > or
> > > > not.
> > > >
> > > > WDYT?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > -Vincent
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Proposal] Simplified Home Page

Anca Luca
Hi Edi,

I sort of understand from this mail that you think I am "defending" the
dashboard on the homepage. I cannot figure out how you got that idea.

The only thing I was saying in the previous mail is that 2 dashboards  by
default don't make sense for me, because dashboard means to me overview and
I think we should rather make it easy for users to turn their homepage in a
proper overview rather than have 2 overviews. Because if we have the
dashboard separately (as today), then the Alices will create on the
homepage their own overview of the wiki, and then Bob, Billy and Bogdan
will have 2 of them. This is not necessarily bad, to be able to have
multiple dashboards, because you can imagine multiple facets of the same
wiki, but I think for a default wiki user is confusing (seeing the homepage
which is an overview and having a link on the right that takes to an
overview).

When I said that the 2 personas need to be analyzed together it was more
about what kind of customization we promote to the admin (Alice). E.g.
explaining as a generic thing that they could include another page and they
could customize could be too generic for the need of Alice, which is to
create a proper welcome page for the B-boys. If we knew / decided on what
is a proper welcome page for the B-boys, then we could make a choice about
how to allow Alice to take ownership, encourage editing, etc AND, in
addition, go towards the "users oriented homepage".

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Anca,
>
> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello Edi,
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Eduard Moraru <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 7:26 PM, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello all,
> > > >
> > > > so on the topic of "removing the dashboard from the homepage" and if
> > > people
> > > > need it they can access it independently.
> > > >
> > > > In my opinion, this dashboard does not really exist or have any value
> > > > beyond the homepage. I mean, what does it mean, what is it used for
> > > besides
> > > > the homepage? What would the dashboard be used other than having an
> > > > overview of the wiki? And if people remove it from the homepage of
> the
> > > > wiki, what would they put instead? An overview of the wiki? Isn't
> that
> > > what
> > > > dashboard means?
> > > >
> > >
> > > The idea of this proposal was that the homepage should be customized by
> > the
> > > admin. It should be a homepage. Instead of a Dashboard, it should
> contain
> > > information about the purpose of the wiki, information for newcomers,
> > > information about the organization, some video, etc. All of this we
> plan
> > to
> > > encourage the admins to customize so that they "take ownership" of
> their
> > > wiki instead of seeing it as just a tool with default settings. Some
> may
> > > see disadvantages to this, and prefer default tools, but others may see
> > the
> > > value of getting the user/admin involved.
> > >
> > > The Dashboard should be seen as a place to go to in order to see what
> is
> > > going on. Dashboards in the wild also tend to be customizable per users
> > (we
> > > technically support that as well, but it could be improved, i.e. have a
> > > default user dashboard in the 'My dashboard' section in the user
> profile
> > > instead of the empty space that is right now in view mode, promote it
> > more,
> > > etc.). They also tend to be used by more technical people
> > >
> > > Once the admin is involved and now aware of how to do things, he can
> > easily
> > > include the dashboard on the homepage if that is his view on the
> purpose
> > of
> > > his wiki. We can even propose it in the default content of the
> homepage.
> > >
> > > What you choose depends a lot on the usecase you have for your wiki,
> i.e.
> > > what flavor you`re using. For example, a dashboard is good for
> > > intranet/groupware but not that good for public websites. We are
> > > considering here what we want the default experience to offer/encourage
> > and
> > > maybe we should not really focus on/be influenced by any of the
> > flavors/use
> > > cases we are having in mind.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > By this logic, I would find it strange to have a homepage and a
> > > dashboard,
> > > > as 2 separate entities, because for me they would mean the same
> thing.
> > So
> > > > multiple possibilities:
> > > > 1/ our _default_ dashboard displayed on the homepage (included or
> not,
> > I
> > > > don't care) is not good enough because it does not offer a good
> > _default_
> > > > overview of the wiki. We need to change the dashboard.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is not part of the use cases [1] extracted from previous
> > discussions.
> > > Are you proposing that we add "offer a good overview of the wiki" as a
> > new
> > > use case/goal or is this just a rewording of UC5 (navigation) ?
> > >
>


That would be proposal 1 here:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposal1Keepcurrenthomepagefixproblems
rather than a UC.

Since I don't know anymore what this mail is about and I am sure we're
gonna get lost in details, here is my proposal (corresponsad to by option
2) expressed in the initial mail):

* By default the home page is a regular wiki page, with some text in it,
that demonstrates all the features of the wiki, something like a Sandbox
webhome. This should cover a couple of the usecases for Alice admin that
needs to understand how wiki works. Also, she will be able to edit the
homepage like a regular page.
* Next to the edit button of this page, we add a button with an UIExtension
which will say: "Turn this homepage in a dashboard with gadgets". Upon
click, we open a wizard where we explain a bit what's gonna happen **and
also that history rollback can always be used to fix whatever we might have
done**. The wizard will put a dashboard macro on the homepage, force the
default edit mode to be inline, add a couple of gadgets already (some of
the most used, etc) and will take the admin back to edit mode of this page,
which she will customize as she pleases.
* There is no link to a dashboard in the menu, the dashboard on
Dashboard.WebHome does not exist anymore. The homepage will be a dashboard
itself (and not include a dashboard).

Ideally, the way I see this used is that when the admin is done
experimenting and has full ownership, they will click this dashboard button
and create a dashboard for the wiki to give to B users. Why dashboard and
not any other thing, like a page include or free text? Mainly because I
think the dashboard is an interesting usecase for the users (B), with the
proper gadgets available, of course, and directing the Admin A towards that
usecase could help noob admins that don't want to understand all the
concepts of the wiki to have a nice homepage.

I just thought of another quite frequent usecase for the homepage for the
users B, which is the homepage of an application (when the wiki is fully
dedicated to an application). I think this should be a preference setting
for admin A, not an include. As in, the Main.WebHome will not include the
other application homepage, but the wiki will actually land on a different
page when accessed. This configuration could be done in the preferences of
the wiki. The case of including pages in the home could be limiting for the
panels or space specific skin (if the application has specific panels, like
the blog, then the same panels would need to be configured on the whole
wiki in order for the usecase "land directly in application blog" to be
fulfilled). This would mean
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposal4Setthispageashomepage
. Note that this proposal does not collide with the proposal I made above
about the dashboard.

Thanks,
Anca




> >
> > I need to think a little more about this in order to make a complete
> > answer, but I read the list of usecases and I remarked one thing:
> >
> > In all UC1 to UC5, I think your "user" is more of an "admin" than a
> user. I
> > see the following flow in working with a wiki:
> > Alice downloads the wiki and plays around with it locally, tests it and
> > checks its features. Then, she is convinced by the tool and decides to
> move
> > this to the next level and install the wiki on a server (or get it
> > installed) so that she can collaborate with her colleagues, Bob, Billy
> and
> > Bogdan. To me Alice is not a user, she's more like a wiki admin. Then
> when
> > the wiki is installed on the server, the three B boys are the users and
> > Alice might become a user as well, or might always stay a little more
> > admin. When she moves from her private tests to a public tool, Alice
> > prepares the homepage of the wiki so that it matches the purpose of the
> > wiki and the B boys. Alice will need to "UC3: The user needs to be able
> to
> > easily replace the home page with his content" but the B boys won't.
> >
> >
> I think you`ve perfectly described what we want to do with the homepage
> (*in this proposal*), and yes, the user we are interested in in this case
> is the admin (Alice) that we want to encourage to take ownership of the
> wiki she is going to present to the wiki's users (B-boys) instead of
> offering them a vanilla "Untitled Document" experience :)
>
> I think that the admin (Alice) homepage needs cannot be analysed
> > independently from the user (Bob, Billy and Bogdan) homepage needs,
> because
> > we risk to provide the admin with customization tools that they will
> never
> > need because the user will never need such a customization.
> >
>
> In a way, that is exactly what the Dashboard is doing: it is *a tool* that
> the user is presented with by default and which he might not need (and has
> no idea how to get rid of).
>
> This proposal was about promoting more the wiki itself (not customization
> tools) and empowering the user that will deploy it so that he can provide
> an optimum experience to his users. We can`t really do much for the variety
> of use cases and users out there that might be using XWiki, but the admin
> can (*if he is able to*, and this is what this proposal is pushing for).
>
> The Dashboard is nice, no argument there, but it is just *a tool*, among
> others, that the admin could choose to use or not.
>
> Still, this is currently just one proposal amongst others [1].
>
> Thanks,
> Eduard
>
> ----------
> [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageProposals
>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anca
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Eduard
> > >
> > > [1] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/HomepageUseCases
> > >
> > >
> > > > In this case, we
> > > > improve the way we modify this dashboard, to allow people to change
> the
> > > > "default" overview which guides the user through the wiki with an
> > > overview
> > > > that is more adapted to the user's usecase.
> > > > 2/ we change the homepage and we remove the dashboard from it and
> > > implement
> > > > an overview of the wiki differently (which would still be a dashboard
> > at
> > > > the conceptual level but implemented differently). In this case, the
> > > > Dashboard.WebHome should be removed completely from the menu, because
> > the
> > > > dashboard _is_ the home page (see my remark above) :) . We can make
> the
> > > > homepage a regular page so that users can edit it very easily by
> > default,
> > > > but we also allow them to easily make it a dashboard with gadgets and
> > > drag
> > > > & drop, so that they can organize their content. I am thinking for
> > > example
> > > > of a button on the homepage, in view mode injected with javascript or
> > UI
> > > > extension or I don't know, which runs a script that creates a new
> > version
> > > > of the homepage which contains a dashboard macro call and a default
> > > gadget
> > > > and the user is taken to the edit mode of the homepage, with the
> > > dashboard
> > > > editor in it.
> > > >
> > > > The only reason why the dashboard is separate now, in
> > Dashboard.WebHome,
> > > is
> > > > for legacy reasons, because it used to be included as the homepage of
> > all
> > > > sort of default spaces, so we needed something that can be re-used
> for
> > > > spaces homes as well. Otherwise, from my point of view, it does not
> > need
> > > to
> > > > be a separate entity. I mean, one should be able to create as many
> > > > dashboards as they'd want (on any page they want), but by default the
> > > > dashboard of the wiki is only one, the homepage of the wiki.
> > > >
> > > > Anca
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 3:23 PM, [hidden email] <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi devs,
> > > > >
> > > > > As you know I started working on a Home Page Application, see:
> > > > > - JIRA with screenshots: http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10586
> > > > > - Discussion thread: http://markmail.org/message/ghelufamwucog46x
> > > > >
> > > > > I have it all done locally but I refrained from committing it
> because
> > > on
> > > > > the email thread some expressed their doubts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I started thinking about it and I expressed some idea in the thread
> > > > > started by Caty about "Wiki - Space - Page concepts pitch":
> > > > > http://markmail.org/message/jefze7nvprz36pkw
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m pasting it here again for discussion (with some edits):
> > > > >
> > > > > "
> > > > > BTW concerning the home page, I’m more and more leaning towards
> > > removing
> > > > > the dashboard from it (it’s accessible from the App panel anyway)
> and
> > > > > instead have it contain:
> > > > > - explanation about how the wiki is organized (wikis, spaces,
> pages)
> > > > > - explanation about base concepts (editing, saving, etc)
> > > > > - encourage the user to edit this home page to make it his own and
> > put
> > > > the
> > > > > content he wishes instead
> > > > >
> > > > > I think this would solve the following issues:
> > > > > - users always want to customize the home page and this makes it
> easy
> > > > > (it’s a standard page, no dashboard). This is also a way for them
> to
> > > take
> > > > > ownership of the wiki as theirs.
> > > > > - explains the main concepts of wiki, space, page
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, we also need to provide a navigation panel for easy
> > > navigation
> > > > > in the wiki/spaces/pages.
> > > > > “
> > > > >
> > > > > If we agree about the idea of removing the dashboard and instead
> > have a
> > > > > simple page then we’ll need to discuss the exact content and for
> that
> > > I’m
> > > > > proposing to discuss with Caty/GuillaumeD and make a proposal for
> > > further
> > > > > discussion. Of course any idea in reply to this email would also be
> > > much
> > > > > appreciated.
> > > > >
> > > > > But first things first! We first need to decide if this is a good
> > idea
> > > or
> > > > > not.
> > > > >
> > > > > WDYT?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > -Vincent
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > devs mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
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> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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