[Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
28 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
Hi XWikiers!

We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
xwiki top menu.

Features :
- New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
[incomplete jira issue]
- Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
- RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
- Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
[I'll write later about this one]

To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
refactoring here :

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

WDYT ?

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

vmassol
Administrator
Hi JV,

Great that you're working on this.

I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is  
the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):

* I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's  
consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces
* I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu
* I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)

Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE  
actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries  
like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.

* We need to make the menus very simple in the simple mode so we need  
2 proposals: one for the simple mode and one for the advanced mode.  
Also we should only display menu entries if the user has the right  
for executing the action.

* I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the  
Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the  
Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need  
something consistent for the admin part.

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

> Hi XWikiers!
>
> We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
> xwiki top menu.
>
> Features :
> - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
> [incomplete jira issue]
> - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
> http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
> - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
> - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
> [I'll write later about this one]
>
> To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
> top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
> currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
> refactoring here :
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>
> WDYT ?
>
> JV.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> Hi JV,
>
> Great that you're working on this.
>
> I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is
> the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):

Yep.

> * I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's
> consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces
> * I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu
> * I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)
>
> Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE
> actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries
> like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.

+1, I've updated the proposal (proposal 2) :

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

> * We need to make the menus very simple in the simple mode so we need
> 2 proposals: one for the simple mode and one for the advanced mode.
> Also we should only display menu entries if the user has the right
> for executing the action.

Sure, basic vs. advanced will have to be discussed when we'll have
found a consensus on the menu. Obviously we must keep the current
behavior on righs check.

> * I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the
> Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the
> Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need
> something consistent for the admin part.

The idea here was to remove the administration link in the header to
keep it only in the top bar. It allow the user to chose in one click
what he want's to administrate, current space or the entire wiki.

> WDYT?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
>
> > Hi XWikiers!
> >
> > We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
> > xwiki top menu.
> >
> > Features :
> > - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
> > [incomplete jira issue]
> > - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
> > - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
> > - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
> > [I'll write later about this one]
> >
> > To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
> > top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
> > currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
> > refactoring here :
> >
> > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> > JV.
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Maybe I'm crazy... but I seem to remember before that we were going to
abandon the Admin space, as it (essentially) duplicated the XWiki
space?

On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi XWikiers!
>
> We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
> xwiki top menu.
>
> Features :
> - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
> [incomplete jira issue]
> - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
> http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
> - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
> - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
> [I'll write later about this one]
>
> To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
> top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
> currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
> refactoring here :
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>
> WDYT ?
>
> JV.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
Yes the Admin space has already been abandonned.
I've made a mistake in a previous email but the discussion about the
"Administration" is :

- here : make a link in the top bar instead of in the header ?
- in the XWiki.WebHome topic : remove the content of the XWiki.WebHome
page and only rely on the admin action for administration ?

2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:

> Maybe I'm crazy... but I seem to remember before that we were going to
> abandon the Admin space, as it (essentially) duplicated the XWiki
> space?
>
> On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi XWikiers!
> >
> > We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
> > xwiki top menu.
> >
> > Features :
> > - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
> > [incomplete jira issue]
> > - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
> > http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
> > - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
> > - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
> > [I'll write later about this one]
> >
> > To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
> > top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
> > currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
> > refactoring here :
> >
> > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
> >
> > WDYT ?
> >
> > JV.
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
> --
> 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
This is what I have in my custom skin:

Edit:
 Wiki
 WYSIWYG
 Form
 Objects

Add:
 New comment
 New attachment
 New subpage
 New space

Show:
 Code
 Comments
 Attachments
 History

Print:
 PDF
 Preview

Admin:
 Delete
 Rename
 Edit class
 Page rights
 Space rights
 Space prefs

What you can see in each menu of course depends on mode
(basic/advanced) and access level, with the admin menu changing the
most if you don't have admin privileges.

I prefer the Admin link by the login, actually.. and the tabbed panels
on that page allow easy flipping between space & global prefs.

*shrug* this works, and was a happy medium between the old menus and
the 1.0 menus.  I'm not sure a "Space" menu makes a lot of sense from
an end user perspective.





On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> > Hi JV,
> >
> > Great that you're working on this.
> >
> > I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is
> > the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):
>
> Yep.
>
> > * I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's
> > consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces
> > * I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu
> > * I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)
> >
> > Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE
> > actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries
> > like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.
>
> +1, I've updated the proposal (proposal 2) :
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>
> > * We need to make the menus very simple in the simple mode so we need
> > 2 proposals: one for the simple mode and one for the advanced mode.
> > Also we should only display menu entries if the user has the right
> > for executing the action.
>
> Sure, basic vs. advanced will have to be discussed when we'll have
> found a consensus on the menu. Obviously we must keep the current
> behavior on righs check.
>
> > * I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the
> > Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the
> > Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need
> > something consistent for the admin part.
>
> The idea here was to remove the administration link in the header to
> keep it only in the top bar. It allow the user to chose in one click
> what he want's to administrate, current space or the entire wiki.
>
> > WDYT?
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
> >
> > > Hi XWikiers!
> > >
> > > We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common point : the
> > > xwiki top menu.
> > >
> > > Features :
> > > - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
> > > [incomplete jira issue]
> > > - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
> > > http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
> > > - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
> > > - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
> > > [I'll write later about this one]
> > >
> > > To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in the
> > > top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
> > > currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
> > > refactoring here :
> > >
> > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
> > >
> > > WDYT ?
> > >
> > > JV.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

vmassol
Administrator

On Oct 9, 2007, at 10:27 AM, Erin Schnabel wrote:

[snip]

> I prefer the Admin link by the login, actually.. and the tabbed panels
> on that page allow easy flipping between space & global prefs.
>
> *shrug* this works, and was a happy medium between the old menus and
> the 1.0 menus.  I'm not sure a "Space" menu makes a lot of sense from
> an end user perspective.

You're right that if we add SPACE then we might as well add a WIKI  
menu too...

Actions can be done at the page level, space level or wiki level.

I'm not sure either although having a SPACE>Export as PDF and  
WIKI>Export as PDF is nice I think, unless we consider these to the  
admin actions (which is also possible since they take quite a lot of  
resources).

The admin actions could be scattered in the PAGE, SPACE and WIKI  
menus (they'd only be visible when the user has admin rights).

WDTY?

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
>>> Hi JV,
>>>
>>> Great that you're working on this.
>>>
>>> I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is
>>> the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>>> * I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's
>>> consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces
>>> * I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu
>>> * I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)
>>>
>>> Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE
>>> actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries
>>> like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.
>>
>> +1, I've updated the proposal (proposal 2) :
>>
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>>
>>> * We need to make the menus very simple in the simple mode so we  
>>> need
>>> 2 proposals: one for the simple mode and one for the advanced mode.
>>> Also we should only display menu entries if the user has the right
>>> for executing the action.
>>
>> Sure, basic vs. advanced will have to be discussed when we'll have
>> found a consensus on the menu. Obviously we must keep the current
>> behavior on righs check.
>>
>>> * I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the
>>> Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the
>>> Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need
>>> something consistent for the admin part.
>>
>> The idea here was to remove the administration link in the header to
>> keep it only in the top bar. It allow the user to chose in one click
>> what he want's to administrate, current space or the entire wiki.
>>
>>> WDYT?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi XWikiers!
>>>>
>>>> We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common  
>>>> point : the
>>>> xwiki top menu.
>>>>
>>>> Features :
>>>> - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
>>>> [incomplete jira issue]
>>>> - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
>>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
>>>> - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/ 
>>>> XWIKI-448
>>>> - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
>>>> [I'll write later about this one]
>>>>
>>>> To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries  
>>>> in the
>>>> top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
>>>> currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
>>>> refactoring here :
>>>>
>>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>>>>
>>>> WDYT ?
>>>>
>>>> JV.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> devs mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
> --
> 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean

On Oct 9, 2007, at 10:00 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

> 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
>> Hi JV,
>>
>> Great that you're working on this.
>>
>> I've looked at the design page and I have some comment (BTW why is
>> the status set to dormant, looks active to me ;)):
>
> Yep.
>
>> * I'd put SPACE as a top level menu instead of WATCH so that there's
>> consistency on actions for Pages and Spaces
>> * I'd move Watch Page to the PAGE menu
>> * I'd move Print to the PAGE menu (since it's a Page action)
>>
>> Basically I'd move all page actions to the PAGE menu and all SPACE
>> actions to the SPACE menu. If we want one then we could add entries
>> like Rename, Delete, Copy, Export as PDF, Export as RTF, etc.
>
> +1, I've updated the proposal (proposal 2) :
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring

I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"

I'd remove the Access Rights from the Edit menu and move it inside  
the Administration Panel.

[snip]

>> * I'm not sure about the Administration menu since it duplicates the
>> Administration button. I think I'd rather we modify the
>> Administration screen to add more stuff. In any case we need
>> something consistent for the admin part.
>
> The idea here was to remove the administration link in the header to
> keep it only in the top bar. It allow the user to chose in one click
> what he want's to administrate, current space or the entire wiki.

I think I prefer to keep the Administration link as it is now for 3  
reasons:
1) It keeps the menu simpler and we don't need as much space for it
2) Users are used to it
3) Admin is different from the rest of the actions so we have the top  
menu bar for users and the admin separate for admins

See my comment in the other thread about the Administration page. My  
preference goes to a Control Panel admin page. Having a menu won't  
allow for scalability. It also won't solve the issue of admin areas  
for applications (XARs).

WDYT?

Thanks
-Vincent

>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:
>>
>>> Hi XWikiers!
>>>
>>> We currently have features planned for 1.2M2 with a common  
>>> point : the
>>> xwiki top menu.
>>>
>>> Features :
>>> - New space admin UI : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-1780
>>> [incomplete jira issue]
>>> - Email notifications (aka watchlist) :
>>> http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-268
>>> - RSS for spaces/pages : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XWIKI-448
>>> - Improve Admin.WebHome : http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XE-14
>>> [I'll write later about this one]
>>>
>>> To address needs from those features we'll have to add entries in  
>>> the
>>> top menu without breaking our "800x600 users" compatibility. We
>>> currently run out of place in this menu, I've made a proposal of
>>> refactoring here :
>>>
>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/Topmenurefactoring
>>>
>>> WDYT ?
>>>
>>> JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
In reply to this post by ebullient
2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
> This is what I have in my custom skin:
>
> [snip]
>
> What you can see in each menu of course depends on mode
> (basic/advanced) and access level, with the admin menu changing the
> most if you don't have admin privileges.

I'm not a big fan of the Admin entry (reminds me the "more actions" in
xwiki < 1.0, which was a kind of hold-all)

> I prefer the Admin link by the login, actually.. and the tabbed panels
> on that page allow easy flipping between space & global prefs.

This header link seems to be liked by most users I know.

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
In reply to this post by vmassol
2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
>
> I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"

Seems to me like a view mode (and print this page sounds like an
action), I'd move it to the SHOW entry.

I've made a new proposal (kind of synthesis between the 2
predecessors), can be seen here :
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu

> I'd remove the Access Rights from the Edit menu and move it inside
> the Administration Panel.

Administration menu entry I guess, BTW since most users prefer to keep
the administration outside the menu WDYT about the new proposal (into
the PAGE entry).

> I think I prefer to keep the Administration link as it is now for 3
> reasons:
> 1) It keeps the menu simpler and we don't need as much space for it
> 2) Users are used to it
> 3) Admin is different from the rest of the actions so we have the top
> menu bar for users and the admin separate for admins

I personnaly have a con about the header link, it makes the space
admin unavailable directly from the view mode but, vox populi vox dei
(and vox projectus leaderus vox dei² ;).

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
Looks like the Administration debate won't be closed until 1.2M2 so I
have created a new menu proposal :
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu

I strongly need your inputs on the left part of it since I'd like to
close a vote asap.

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"
>

Print should be kept as print. Whether it's a "view" or not, "Print"
makes sense to users, and a print to PDF vs. print preview is very
natural. Changing "Print" to "Export" or "Show" only makes sense to we
programmers.

Other export could go under the "Page" menu, though I don't
particularly like that as a menu header.. "Page Actions" or just
"Actions".  I know the "More Actions" was a hodge-podge, but it was a
nice hodge-podge, and a lot of users found that pretty obvious to use.
 I called the "More Actions" hodge-podge "Admin" in my new skin
because it was more "Admin-ish" kinds of actions, where the
edit/show/add/print actions were classified appropriately.

Also, having rename and delete under "Admin" kept them in an intuitive
location, while at the same time making it less likely that they would
be accidentally clicked.

If it becomes a "Page Actions" ("Page" by itself just seems wrong, but
I don't like "Page Actions" either), then having Copy, Rename, Delete,
and Access rights all under that make sense.

I don't think "Watch this space" or "Watch this page" need to be
anywhere in particular. Most of the modern browsers find any RSS feed
links on the page w/o intervention, and I've always found that a more
obvious link (in a panel, for example) is more effective than tucking
the "Watch" URL's in one of those menus.. Unless "Watch" means
something other than I think it does.

--
'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:

> On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this page"
> >
>
> Print should be kept as print. Whether it's a "view" or not, "Print"
> makes sense to users, and a print to PDF vs. print preview is very
> natural. Changing "Print" to "Export" or "Show" only makes sense to we
> programmers.

Would agree if the print link was like all the print buttons we see
everywhere, a javascript call to the navigator print action, which is
not the case.

(disclosure : i'm -1 for having this link, don't see where it can be
useful when in the end you'll have to go to File>Print to actually
print).

> Other export could go under the "Page" menu, though I don't
> particularly like that as a menu header.. "Page Actions" or just
> "Actions".  I know the "More Actions" was a hodge-podge, but it was a
> nice hodge-podge, and a lot of users found that pretty obvious to use.
>  I called the "More Actions" hodge-podge "Admin" in my new skin
> because it was more "Admin-ish" kinds of actions, where the
> edit/show/add/print actions were classified appropriately.

Hope this thread won't end up in a hodge-podge VS. anti-hodge-podge fight :)
I still hope we can find a solution to avoid a hodge-podge in the action menu.

(but if we have to have one I'd call it "Actions")

> Also, having rename and delete under "Admin" kept them in an intuitive
> location, while at the same time making it less likely that they would
> be accidentally clicked.

Reminder : it'd be great if we can all forget about having an Admin
entry in the action menu, we'll see that later.

> If it becomes a "Page Actions" ("Page" by itself just seems wrong, but
> I don't like "Page Actions" either), then having Copy, Rename, Delete,
> and Access rights all under that make sense.

Yep, if it becomes a "Page Actions".

> I don't think "Watch this space" or "Watch this page" need to be
> anywhere in particular. Most of the modern browsers find any RSS feed
> links on the page w/o intervention, and I've always found that a more
> obvious link (in a panel, for example) is more effective than tucking
> the "Watch" URL's in one of those menus.. Unless "Watch" means
> something other than I think it does.

The watch feature isn't about RSS, it's about building a list of pages
you want to watch and receive notifications about (both email & RSS),
I'll write about that later.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jerome Velociter
Hello,

I'm pretty much convinced by JV's ideas on
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu.
I would however propose the following minor changes :

* With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
disable notification feature will be)
* I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me :)

Jérôme.

> 2007/10/9, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
>> On 10/9/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > 2007/10/9, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
>> > >
>> > > I'd also move the Print menu inside the Page menu as "Print this
>> page"
>> >
>>
>> Print should be kept as print. Whether it's a "view" or not, "Print"
>> makes sense to users, and a print to PDF vs. print preview is very
>> natural. Changing "Print" to "Export" or "Show" only makes sense to we
>> programmers.
>
> Would agree if the print link was like all the print buttons we see
> everywhere, a javascript call to the navigator print action, which is
> not the case.
>
> (disclosure : i'm -1 for having this link, don't see where it can be
> useful when in the end you'll have to go to File>Print to actually
> print).
>
>> Other export could go under the "Page" menu, though I don't
>> particularly like that as a menu header.. "Page Actions" or just
>> "Actions".  I know the "More Actions" was a hodge-podge, but it was a
>> nice hodge-podge, and a lot of users found that pretty obvious to use.
>>  I called the "More Actions" hodge-podge "Admin" in my new skin
>> because it was more "Admin-ish" kinds of actions, where the
>> edit/show/add/print actions were classified appropriately.
>
> Hope this thread won't end up in a hodge-podge VS. anti-hodge-podge fight
> :)
> I still hope we can find a solution to avoid a hodge-podge in the action
> menu.
>
> (but if we have to have one I'd call it "Actions")
>
>> Also, having rename and delete under "Admin" kept them in an intuitive
>> location, while at the same time making it less likely that they would
>> be accidentally clicked.
>
> Reminder : it'd be great if we can all forget about having an Admin
> entry in the action menu, we'll see that later.
>
>> If it becomes a "Page Actions" ("Page" by itself just seems wrong, but
>> I don't like "Page Actions" either), then having Copy, Rename, Delete,
>> and Access rights all under that make sense.
>
> Yep, if it becomes a "Page Actions".
>
>> I don't think "Watch this space" or "Watch this page" need to be
>> anywhere in particular. Most of the modern browsers find any RSS feed
>> links on the page w/o intervention, and I've always found that a more
>> obvious link (in a panel, for example) is more effective than tucking
>> the "Watch" URL's in one of those menus.. Unless "Watch" means
>> something other than I think it does.
>
> The watch feature isn't about RSS, it's about building a list of pages
> you want to watch and receive notifications about (both email & RSS),
> I'll write about that later.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>
> * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> disable notification feature will be)

You'll like my last proposal ;)

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29

> * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me :)

Yes, may be ;)

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

goldring, richard
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
a FILE.


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
Jean-Vincent Drean
Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
To: XWiki Developers
Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring


2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>
> * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> disable notification feature will be)

You'll like my last proposal ;)

http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29

> * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
:)

Yes, may be ;)

JV.
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. We may monitor all
e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
and all copies from your system. We accept no responsibility for changes to
any e-mail which occur after it has been sent.  Attachments to this e-mail
may contain software viruses which could damage your system.  We therefore
recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
868273
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.

Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.

2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:

> Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> a FILE.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> Jean-Vincent Drean
> Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> To: XWiki Developers
> Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
>
>
> 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > disable notification feature will be)
>
> You'll like my last proposal ;)
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
>
> > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> :)
>
> Yes, may be ;)
>
> JV.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
> is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
> the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
> this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. We may monitor all
> e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
> in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
> and all copies from your system. We accept no responsibility for changes to
> any e-mail which occur after it has been sent.  Attachments to this e-mail
> may contain software viruses which could damage your system.  We therefore
> recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
> Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
> Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
> 868273
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Hi,

I like very much the "proposal 3". I think the most XWiki is viewed as
a real "application" the better is it for user.

Just one thing this more technical, I don't know how works the menu
but I would prefer to have more level for example FILE->Export->PDF,
FILE->Export->RDF because FILE menu is too long I think it is easier
to add more exports as plugins for example.

2007/10/10, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]>:

> 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > disable notification feature will be)
>
> You'll like my last proposal ;)
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
>
> > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me :)
>
> Yes, may be ;)
>
> JV.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
Thomas Mortagne
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Hmmmmmmm... that last one (3)  does seem pretty intuitive...

I asked a manager (aka regular user) in my area to come and take a
look. She wanted the "Add menu" back (add comment, add attachment, add
subpage, add space).

File/Page,   Edit,   Add,   View,   Watch,   Documentation

while I like what's in the File/Page menu thing, I still ... I dunno
-- the name bugs me for some reason..


On 10/10/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:

> To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
> by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
> then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.
>
> Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.
>
> 2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> > Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> > a FILE.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> > Jean-Vincent Drean
> > Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> > To: XWiki Developers
> > Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
> >
> >
> > 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > > disable notification feature will be)
> >
> > You'll like my last proposal ;)
> >
> > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> > l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> >
> > > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> > :)
> >
> > Yes, may be ;)
> >
> > JV.
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> > Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
> > is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
> > the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> > unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> > circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
> > this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. We may monitor all
> > e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
> > in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
> > and all copies from your system. We accept no responsibility for changes to
> > any e-mail which occur after it has been sent.  Attachments to this e-mail
> > may contain software viruses which could damage your system.  We therefore
> > recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
> > Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
> > Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
> > 868273
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Hi,

I've just reviewed this last proposal and here are my comments:

* I'm -1 on naming the menu entry "File" unless someone convinces  
me... Right now I don't understand the rationale. Why not call it  
"Orange Juice"? ;)
* I hate those Microsoft menu entries! ;)
* Don't put CTRL+P in the menu (since the keys are different  
depending on the OS)
* Edit menu should be on the left since it's the most used menu
* Not sure why we're changing "Show" to "View". Show looks fine to me  
and since it's been around for some time why change it?
* I don't like the Watchlist menu entry. This is a very specific  
application and I'm not sure why it gets its own menu entry compared  
to other applications.
* I'd be fine with keeping the current Edit and Show menus and  
collapse the Delete, Rename and other actions into an "Actions" menu  
(or "Other actions")

-Vincent

On Oct 10, 2007, at 3:14 AM, Jean-Vincent Drean wrote:

> 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we  
>> can afford
>> a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page",  
>> "Watch
>> this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators.  
>> (And by
>> the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for  
>> some reason
>> on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
>> disable notification feature will be)
>
> You'll like my last proposal ;)
>
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/ 
> RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
>
>> * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe  
>> juste me :)
>
> Yes, may be ;)
>
> JV.
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
12