[Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
2007/10/11, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> I've just reviewed this last proposal and here are my comments:
>
> * I'm -1 on naming the menu entry "File" unless someone convinces
> me... Right now I don't understand the rationale. Why not call it
> "Orange Juice"? ;)

I'm -1 for "File" too, "Page seems more appropriate"

> * I hate those Microsoft menu entries! ;)

Ok so let's talk about mozilla menu entries then ;)

> * Don't put CTRL+P in the menu (since the keys are different
> depending on the OS)

Ok

> * Edit menu should be on the left since it's the most used menu

I was waiting for someone to raise this one, I'm testing the proposal
3 on my local xwiki and I confirm that it's annoying for people
accustomed to the edit at the left.

> * Not sure why we're changing "Show" to "View". Show looks fine to me
> and since it's been around for some time why change it?

This proposal was an attempt of a more desktopish layout.
(Page/Edit/View). BTW i never liked "Show" ;)

> * I don't like the Watchlist menu entry. This is a very specific
> application and I'm not sure why it gets its own menu entry compared
> to other applications.

Page/Edit/View wait for it.. Bookmarks -> File/Edit/View/Watchlist
(since bookmark doesn't fit here).

> * I'd be fine with keeping the current Edit and Show menus and
> collapse the Delete, Rename and other actions into an "Actions" menu
> (or "Other actions")

-1 for the hodge-podge until we had discussed all the other options ;)

JV.
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

goldring, richard
In reply to this post by Jean-Vincent Drean
Bookmarks/favourites - what a good idea! Perhaps with a favorites left hand
flyout menu tree? Although you always have your browser bookmarks/favourites
but this means you'd have access to your favourites independent of the PC or
browser you were using.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
Jean-Vincent Drean
Sent: 11 October 2007 01:18
To: XWiki Developers
Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring


2007/10/11, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>:
> Hi,
>
> I've just reviewed this last proposal and here are my comments:
>
> * I'm -1 on naming the menu entry "File" unless someone convinces
> me... Right now I don't understand the rationale. Why not call it
> "Orange Juice"? ;)

I'm -1 for "File" too, "Page seems more appropriate"

> * I hate those Microsoft menu entries! ;)

Ok so let's talk about mozilla menu entries then ;)

> * Don't put CTRL+P in the menu (since the keys are different
> depending on the OS)

Ok

> * Edit menu should be on the left since it's the most used menu

I was waiting for someone to raise this one, I'm testing the proposal
3 on my local xwiki and I confirm that it's annoying for people
accustomed to the edit at the left.

> * Not sure why we're changing "Show" to "View". Show looks fine to me
> and since it's been around for some time why change it?

This proposal was an attempt of a more desktopish layout.
(Page/Edit/View). BTW i never liked "Show" ;)

> * I don't like the Watchlist menu entry. This is a very specific
> application and I'm not sure why it gets its own menu entry compared
> to other applications.

Page/Edit/View wait for it.. Bookmarks -> File/Edit/View/Watchlist
(since bookmark doesn't fit here).

> * I'd be fine with keeping the current Edit and Show menus and
> collapse the Delete, Rename and other actions into an "Actions" menu
> (or "Other actions")

-1 for the hodge-podge until we had discussed all the other options ;)

JV.
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
2007/10/11, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> Bookmarks/favourites - what a good idea! Perhaps with a favorites left hand
> flyout menu tree? Although you always have your browser bookmarks/favourites
> but this means you'd have access to your favourites independent of the PC or
> browser you were using.

Well the idea is not exactly to have bookmarks similar to the
navigators ones, it's more a list of pages/spaces you can build while
browsing you wiki, then you can decide (feature added in the user
profile) to receive email and/or RSS notifications (choice at the
element level) when those elements are modified. This feature was
scheduled for a long time but had never been implemented.

JV.
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
In reply to this post by ebullient
Screenshots added :
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29

2007/10/10, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:

> Hmmmmmmm... that last one (3)  does seem pretty intuitive...
>
> I asked a manager (aka regular user) in my area to come and take a
> look. She wanted the "Add menu" back (add comment, add attachment, add
> subpage, add space).
>
> File/Page,   Edit,   Add,   View,   Watch,   Documentation
>
> while I like what's in the File/Page menu thing, I still ... I dunno
> -- the name bugs me for some reason..
>
>
> On 10/10/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
> > by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
> > then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.
> >
> > Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.
> >
> > 2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> > > Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> > > a FILE.
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> > > Jean-Vincent Drean
> > > Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> > > To: XWiki Developers
> > > Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
> > >
> > >
> > > 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > > > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > > > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > > > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > > > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > > > disable notification feature will be)
> > >
> > > You'll like my last proposal ;)
> > >
> > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> > > l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> > >
> > > > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> > > :)
> > >
> > > Yes, may be ;)
> > >
> > > JV.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > > Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
> > > is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
> > > the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> > > unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> > > circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
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> > > e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
> > > in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
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> > > recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
> > > Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
> > > Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
> > > 868273
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
> --
> 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
A HEART?!?!?! What is the world coming to... LOL

Really, we need an Add menu. It may seem unnecessary to wizards like
us, but it was the first thing my "regular user" asked about...



On 10/13/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Screenshots added :
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
>
> 2007/10/10, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
> > Hmmmmmmm... that last one (3)  does seem pretty intuitive...
> >
> > I asked a manager (aka regular user) in my area to come and take a
> > look. She wanted the "Add menu" back (add comment, add attachment, add
> > subpage, add space).
> >
> > File/Page,   Edit,   Add,   View,   Watch,   Documentation
> >
> > while I like what's in the File/Page menu thing, I still ... I dunno
> > -- the name bugs me for some reason..
> >
> >
> > On 10/10/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
> > > by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
> > > then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.
> > >
> > > Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.
> > >
> > > 2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> > > > Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> > > > a FILE.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> > > > Jean-Vincent Drean
> > > > Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> > > > To: XWiki Developers
> > > > Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > > > > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > > > > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > > > > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > > > > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > > > > disable notification feature will be)
> > > >
> > > > You'll like my last proposal ;)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> > > > l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> > > >
> > > > > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> > > > :)
> > > >
> > > > Yes, may be ;)
> > > >
> > > > JV.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
> > > > Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
> > > > is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
> > > > the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> > > > unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> > > > circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
> > > > this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. We may monitor all
> > > > e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
> > > > in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
> > > > and all copies from your system. We accept no responsibility for changes to
> > > > any e-mail which occur after it has been sent.  Attachments to this e-mail
> > > > may contain software viruses which could damage your system.  We therefore
> > > > recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
> > > > Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
> > > > Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
> > > > 868273
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Guillaume Lerouge
There is an Add panel that users can already use if they need to.
What's more, creating new pages from a panel (when those pages are not
part of applications) almost always imply that those pages will be
orphans, meaning that their value is - at best - low when not
cross-linked to other pages.

It would be better if a mechanism offered some kind of automatic
linking process for new pages so that they could interact with other,
existing pages effectively. However it is hard to offer a satisfying
solution to achieve this aim at this point.

As for the heart, a star would fit the bill as well plus it's already
familiar to some users. I would actually suggest the replacement of
both the heart in the top menu and the icon on profile pages with a
star.

WDYT?

Guillaume

On 16/10/2007, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A HEART?!?!?! What is the world coming to... LOL
>
> Really, we need an Add menu. It may seem unnecessary to wizards like
> us, but it was the first thing my "regular user" asked about...
>
>
>
> On 10/13/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Screenshots added :
> > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> >
> > 2007/10/10, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
> > > Hmmmmmmm... that last one (3)  does seem pretty intuitive...
> > >
> > > I asked a manager (aka regular user) in my area to come and take a
> > > look. She wanted the "Add menu" back (add comment, add attachment, add
> > > subpage, add space).
> > >
> > > File/Page,   Edit,   Add,   View,   Watch,   Documentation
> > >
> > > while I like what's in the File/Page menu thing, I still ... I dunno
> > > -- the name bugs me for some reason..
> > >
> > >
> > > On 10/10/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
> > > > by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
> > > > then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.
> > > >
> > > > Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.
> > > >
> > > > 2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> > > > > a FILE.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> > > > > Jean-Vincent Drean
> > > > > Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> > > > > To: XWiki Developers
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > > > > > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > > > > > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > > > > > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > > > > > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > > > > > disable notification feature will be)
> > > > >
> > > > > You'll like my last proposal ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> > > > > l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> > > > >
> > > > > > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> > > > > :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, may be ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > JV.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > devs mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > > >
> > > > > Thales UK Ltd (Wells) DISCLAIMER: The information contained in this e-mail
> > > > > is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. It is intended only for
> > > > > the stated addressee(s) and access to it by any other person is
> > > > > unauthorised. If you are not an addressee, you must not disclose, copy,
> > > > > circulate or in any other way use or rely on the information contained in
> > > > > this e-mail. Such unauthorised use may be unlawful. We may monitor all
> > > > > e-mail communications through our networks. If you have received this e-mail
> > > > > in error, please inform us immediately on +44 (0) 1749 672081 and delete it
> > > > > and all copies from your system. We accept no responsibility for changes to
> > > > > any e-mail which occur after it has been sent.  Attachments to this e-mail
> > > > > may contain software viruses which could damage your system.  We therefore
> > > > > recommend you virus-check all attachments before opening. A business of
> > > > > Thales UK Ltd. Registered Office: 2 Dashwood Lang Road, The Bourne Business
> > > > > Park, Addlestone, Weybridge, Surrey KT15 2NX Registered in England No.
> > > > > 868273
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > devs mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
> --
> 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

Jean-Vincent Drean
In reply to this post by ebullient
2007/10/16, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
> A HEART?!?!?! What is the world coming to... LOL

I took the heart from the albatross skin, feel free to contribute a
star consistent with the other menu items :)

> Really, we need an Add menu. It may seem unnecessary to wizards like
> us, but it was the first thing my "regular user" asked about...

+1 with Guillaume.

JV.
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Re: [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring

ebullient
In reply to this post by Guillaume Lerouge
The Add menu I have either A) links to the CreatePage with the
appropriate arguments (i.e. if it's a subpage, it has the parms to
create a page w/ the space prefix in the page name, and the parent
set), or B to the "attachments" or "comments" view of the current
page. I have CreatePage panels, and while they go right to
xpage=create, the values for parent, etc. are still filled in, and the
name sanitized, etc. Allows people to start
page/space/comment/attachment creation from multiple places, but lands
them in a place consistent for insuring sane page/space/attachment
names, etc.

It is not always intuitive for some of my users to scroll all the way
down to the bottom of a page to add a comment or attachment. They
prefer the Add menu for that:

Add Menu (default action is the same as new subpage below):
  New comment: redirects to the current page ?viewer=comments
  New attachment: redirects to the current page ?viewer=attachments
  New subpage: redirects to XWiki.CreatePage?parent=CurrentSpace.CurrentPage
  New space: redirects to
XWiki.CreatePage?parent=CurrentSpace.CurrentPage&amp;tocreate=space

CreatePage panel (custom):
  Form action: action="$doc.getURL("view", "xpage=create")"
  input type="hidden" name="template" value=""
  input type="hidden" name="tocreate" value="page"
  input type="hidden" name="parent" value="$tdoc.fullName"

So, our panels for creating pages are useful, and the menu items for
creating new pages and spaces are useful (as far as not creating
orphans goes). Having the values filled in, especially when they are
directed to XWiki.CreatePage helps to ensure that they recognize the
parent should be set...


On 10/16/07, Guillaume Lerouge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is an Add panel that users can already use if they need to.
> What's more, creating new pages from a panel (when those pages are not
> part of applications) almost always imply that those pages will be
> orphans, meaning that their value is - at best - low when not
> cross-linked to other pages.
>
> It would be better if a mechanism offered some kind of automatic
> linking process for new pages so that they could interact with other,
> existing pages effectively. However it is hard to offer a satisfying
> solution to achieve this aim at this point.
>
> As for the heart, a star would fit the bill as well plus it's already
> familiar to some users. I would actually suggest the replacement of
> both the heart in the top menu and the icon on profile pages with a
> star.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Guillaume
>
> On 16/10/2007, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > A HEART?!?!?! What is the world coming to... LOL
> >
> > Really, we need an Add menu. It may seem unnecessary to wizards like
> > us, but it was the first thing my "regular user" asked about...
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/13/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Screenshots added :
> > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposal32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> > >
> > > 2007/10/10, Erin Schnabel <[hidden email]>:
> > > > Hmmmmmmm... that last one (3)  does seem pretty intuitive...
> > > >
> > > > I asked a manager (aka regular user) in my area to come and take a
> > > > look. She wanted the "Add menu" back (add comment, add attachment, add
> > > > subpage, add space).
> > > >
> > > > File/Page,   Edit,   Add,   View,   Watch,   Documentation
> > > >
> > > > while I like what's in the File/Page menu thing, I still ... I dunno
> > > > -- the name bugs me for some reason..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 10/10/07, Jean-Vincent Drean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > To please the famous end-user, you know, the one who would be confused
> > > > > by an export entry ;) Those users who have "To print I go to FILE,
> > > > > then PRINT" engraved in memory in 30foot tall letters.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just kidding, as a developer and wiki user I'd prefer PAGE too.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2007/10/10, goldring, richard <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > > Why FILE? - why not call the menu PAGE because that's what it is - it's not
> > > > > > a FILE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of
> > > > > > Jean-Vincent Drean
> > > > > > Sent: 10 October 2007 11:15
> > > > > > To: XWiki Developers
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xwiki-devs] [Proposal][UI] Top menu refactoring
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2007/10/10, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > * With the space we gained from "rename" and "copy", I think we can afford
> > > > > > > a whole "Whatch" menu item, that will contain "Watch this page", "Watch
> > > > > > > this space" and possibly "Watch settings..." for administrators. (And by
> > > > > > > the way, it allow, if the notification feature is disabled for some reason
> > > > > > > on a wiki, not to impact other menu lists - but I don't know if this
> > > > > > > disable notification feature will be)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You'll like my last proposal ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Design/RefactorActionMenu#H12M228proposa
> > > > > > l32CAKAyouthoughtyouwereinawebapp3F29
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > * I like the "Access Right" in the "Edit" menu, but that's maybe juste me
> > > > > > :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, may be ;)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JV.
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > --
> > > > 'Waste of a good apple' -Samwise Gamgee
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> >
> >
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