[Proposal] Use Junco Skin for xwiki.org

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

Hi devs,

For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin

This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
for xwiki.org.
I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
Extension page.
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage

This is my +1

Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues

__Advantages__
- a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
website;
- the skin is responsive;
- by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
components, etc.);
- we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
- IMO the skin looks nice :)

__Disadvantages__
- the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
time to be detected and fixed;

__Platform integration problems__
1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552

2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.

3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
by using Grunt.

Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
Caty

[1] http://getbootstrap.com/
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[vmassol]

Hi Caty,

Nice work! :)

On Sep 20, 2013, at 12:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1

+1 too this is very nice and good for testing before integration.

> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552

Yes we'll need to fix this before we can integrate in the platform.

>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,

Thanks
-Vincent

> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
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[Silvia Rusu]

Hi Caty!

This looks very nice, so +1! We can help with the testing.

Thanks,
Silvia

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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[Ionut Maxim]

Great work Caty!

I wanted to work on that myself but ran into issues 1 and 3, tbh thought
that 2 could wait.

I hope you get the dev help you're after.

+1 on my end :)


On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> >)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
> some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

--
Ionut MAXIM
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Web Designer @ XWiki SAS
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
[phone] | www.xwiki.com
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[Fabio Mancinelli-4]

+1

Installing it now on my local XWikis :)

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
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[Marius Dumitru Florea]

+1 look great!

Thanks,
Marius

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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[Denis Gervalle-2]

+1
Great job Cathy, we definitely need to talk about 3), since I have already
investigate that point and it should not be so hard.
I am just too busy right know, but I will try to find some time next month.
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[Ludovic Dubost]

Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
quite nice.

I have a few questions.

1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
Is that so ?

2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have feature
regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.

I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.

3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
with the new system ?

4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been built
on colibri

5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with colibri
based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
different modules ?

Ludovic



2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> >)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
> some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

--
Ludovic Dubost
Founder and CEO
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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[Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau]

+1, it's nice :)


2013/9/25 Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]>

> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
> quite nice.
>
> I have a few questions.
>
> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
> Is that so ?
>
> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have feature
> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
>
> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
>
> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
> with the new system ?
>
> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been built
> on colibri
>
> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with colibri
> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
> different modules ?
>
> Ludovic
>
>
>
> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> > can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
> >
> > This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> > Theme<
> >
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> > >)
> > for xwiki.org.
> > I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> > Extension page.
> >
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
> >
> > This is my +1
> >
> > Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
> >
> > __Advantages__
> > - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> > website;
> > - the skin is responsive;
> > - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> > components, etc.);
> > - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> > possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> > - IMO the skin looks nice :)
> >
> > __Disadvantages__
> > - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
> some
> > time to be detected and fixed;
> >
> > __Platform integration problems__
> > 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we
> were
> > to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> > currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
> > some
> > of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
> validation
> > fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
> >
> > 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
> ColorThemes
> > on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> > not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
> some
> > code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
> >
> > 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> > Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> > of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
> manual
> > by using Grunt.
> >
> > Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ludovic Dubost
> Founder and CEO
> Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
> XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
> Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

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[Raluca Stavro-3]

Hello,

This looks great !

+1,
Raluca.


On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> >)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
> some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[Thomas Mortagne]

Very nice ! Here is my +1

On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>
> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> Theme<http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry>)
> for xwiki.org.
> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> Extension page.
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>
> This is my +1
>
> Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>
> __Advantages__
> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> website;
> - the skin is responsive;
> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> components, etc.);
> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>
> __Disadvantages__
> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take some
> time to be detected and fixed;
>
> __Platform integration problems__
> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we were
> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose some
> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML validation
> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>
> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the ColorThemes
> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating some
> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>
> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially manual
> by using Grunt.
>
> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> Caty
>
> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

--
Thomas Mortagne
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
> quite nice.
>
> I have a few questions.
>
> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
> Is that so ?
>

I've took colibri.css:
- stripped it from any rules that Bootstrap already covers (reset, standard
html elements, forms, etc.);
- mapped what I could to Bootstrap components (tables, boxes, panels, etc.);
- stripped layout elements and tried to get rid of ColorThemes values (in
the end realizing that I can't, without loosing functionality);
- cleaned the remaining selectors and properties (removed IE6,7 rules;
removed rules that maybe are covered by Bootstrap; etc.)

What remained are classes that will be needed by any new skin; classes that
kind of represent the CSS API (although there are still parts that could be
moved to their specific component file).
I though that if someone makes a change in Colibri and that selector is
also in legacy.css it should be ported here (that's why I left the
selectors as original).

Everything that is in legacy.css could be rewritten in junco.css, but it
will create a bigger gap between the two skins.


> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have feature
> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
>
> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
>

The integration problems are presented above (__Platform integration
problems__). One is the need to be able to build LESS files and update them
'on the fly'.
Regarding ColorThemes values, there are 2 files:
- global/xwiki-colorthemes.less - which is kind of a colorThemeInit.vm
https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-colortheme.less
- <theme>/xwiki-colortheme.less - which overrides the initialization and
provide colors for a specific theme
Blueberry example:
https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/blueberry/xwiki-colortheme.less

So when changing ColorThemes values, we need to make sure we update this
files.


>
> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
> with the new system ?
>

As stated above, legacy.css is not a limitation. We could rename it from
legacy.css to base.css or api.css, we could maybe write some more
performant selectors or maybe write them using LESS nested selectors.
The file contains the common denominator for Colibri and Junco and some
parts of the layout could be removed from it, in order to make it a true
API file. All the selectors that will be removed from here will end up in
the xwiki-common.less
https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-common.less

If we rewrite it whole, the only problem is that it will be harder to
update both Colibri and Junco.


>
> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been built
> on colibri
>

Because of the mapping between XWiki and Bootstrap the Colibri classes will
be covered in Junco.
The problem are base HTML elements, that may have other default values. I'm
sure tables will produce some problems, because in Colibri they didn't had
any default padding, while after mapping they do. If someone use table for
layout, there will be some extra spacing.
There is not migration path for skins like that. Although we should have
minor problems, they will need to be tested and fixed manually.


>
> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with colibri
> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
> different modules ?
>

So the current HTML structure is covered by legacy.css and
xwiki-mapping.less.

If someone will want to change the HTML structure, you need to:
- make sure that the classes you delete are not 'API', this means they are
not called in legacy or xwiki-mapping. If a class is present in these files
means it also has a significance in Colibri;
- if you find a certain class, don't delete it. Instead just append your
new class or Bootstrap class. Keeping the legacy class, it will have a
fallback if Colibri skin will be used.

Of course there will be differences between skins if we start using
Bootstrap components and that is normal (because Colibri will not know of
their existence).

Thanks,
Caty

>
> Ludovic
>
>
>
> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>
> > Hi devs,
> >
> > For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1]. You
> > can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
> >
> > This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> > Theme<
> >
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> > >)
> > for xwiki.org.
> > I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and an
> > Extension page.
> >
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
> >
> > This is my +1
> >
> > Please report any issues on https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
> >
> > __Advantages__
> > - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
> > website;
> > - the skin is responsive;
> > - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
> > components, etc.);
> > - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> > possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> > - IMO the skin looks nice :)
> >
> > __Disadvantages__
> > - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
> some
> > time to be detected and fixed;
> >
> > __Platform integration problems__
> > 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we
> were
> > to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
> > currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
> > some
> > of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
> validation
> > fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
> >
> > 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
> ColorThemes
> > on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
> > not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
> some
> > code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
> >
> > 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into CSS.
> > Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the building
> > of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
> manual
> > by using Grunt.
> >
> > Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Ludovic Dubost
> Founder and CEO
> Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
> XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
> Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)]

Hi,

Thank you for your votes. I've integrate the Homepage changes and we are
using the Junco skin on xwiki.org

__Discussion 1__
So one of the problems is 'Clearing your Cache'. In order to see the
changes correctly you need to refresh the page and make sure the cache is
updated with the new style rules.
It would be great if someone would know how we could force the clearing of
the cache. Maybe http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6073 ?

__Discussion 2__
On a related topic, Vincent thinks we should not use a 'centered' design,
instead have (just like Colibri has) a 'full width 'design.

I've made some screenshots (please take a look at them in full view):
* Centered:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testCentered.png
**Full width:
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testFull.png

Why I disagree (having full width and prefer the centered version):
- xwiki.org is a documentation site so most of its content needs to be
read;
- From a readability point of view, if the line is too long it is harder
for the eye to read it, please read
http://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability ;
- Being a responsive skin, for smaller devices the content goes full width,
so the centered width is just for large resolutions;

Let me know what you think,
Caty



On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
>> quite nice.
>>
>> I have a few questions.
>>
>> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
>> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
>> Is that so ?
>>
>
> I've took colibri.css:
> - stripped it from any rules that Bootstrap already covers (reset,
> standard html elements, forms, etc.);
> - mapped what I could to Bootstrap components (tables, boxes, panels,
> etc.);
> - stripped layout elements and tried to get rid of ColorThemes values (in
> the end realizing that I can't, without loosing functionality);
> - cleaned the remaining selectors and properties (removed IE6,7 rules;
> removed rules that maybe are covered by Bootstrap; etc.)
>
> What remained are classes that will be needed by any new skin; classes
> that kind of represent the CSS API (although there are still parts that
> could be moved to their specific component file).
> I though that if someone makes a change in Colibri and that selector is
> also in legacy.css it should be ported here (that's why I left the
> selectors as original).
>
> Everything that is in legacy.css could be rewritten in junco.css, but it
> will create a bigger gap between the two skins.
>
>
>> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
>> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have
>> feature
>> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
>> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
>>
>> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
>> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
>>
>
> The integration problems are presented above (__Platform integration
> problems__). One is the need to be able to build LESS files and update them
> 'on the fly'.
> Regarding ColorThemes values, there are 2 files:
> - global/xwiki-colorthemes.less - which is kind of a colorThemeInit.vm
>
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-colortheme.less
> - <theme>/xwiki-colortheme.less - which overrides the initialization and
> provide colors for a specific theme
> Blueberry example:
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/blueberry/xwiki-colortheme.less
>
> So when changing ColorThemes values, we need to make sure we update this
> files.
>
>
>>
>> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
>> with the new system ?
>>
>
> As stated above, legacy.css is not a limitation. We could rename it from
> legacy.css to base.css or api.css, we could maybe write some more
> performant selectors or maybe write them using LESS nested selectors.
> The file contains the common denominator for Colibri and Junco and some
> parts of the layout could be removed from it, in order to make it a true
> API file. All the selectors that will be removed from here will end up in
> the xwiki-common.less
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-common.less
>
> If we rewrite it whole, the only problem is that it will be harder to
> update both Colibri and Junco.
>
>
>>
>> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been
>> built
>> on colibri
>>
>
> Because of the mapping between XWiki and Bootstrap the Colibri classes
> will be covered in Junco.
> The problem are base HTML elements, that may have other default values.
> I'm sure tables will produce some problems, because in Colibri they didn't
> had any default padding, while after mapping they do. If someone use table
> for layout, there will be some extra spacing.
> There is not migration path for skins like that. Although we should have
> minor problems, they will need to be tested and fixed manually.
>
>
>>
>> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with
>> colibri
>> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
>> different modules ?
>>
>
> So the current HTML structure is covered by legacy.css and
> xwiki-mapping.less.
>
> If someone will want to change the HTML structure, you need to:
> - make sure that the classes you delete are not 'API', this means they are
> not called in legacy or xwiki-mapping. If a class is present in these files
> means it also has a significance in Colibri;
> - if you find a certain class, don't delete it. Instead just append your
> new class or Bootstrap class. Keeping the legacy class, it will have a
> fallback if Colibri skin will be used.
>
> Of course there will be differences between skins if we start using
> Bootstrap components and that is normal (because Colibri will not know of
> their existence).
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>> Ludovic
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>
>> > Hi devs,
>> >
>> > For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1].
>> You
>> > can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
>> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>> >
>> > This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
>> > Theme<
>> >
>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
>> > >)
>> > for xwiki.org.
>> > I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and
>> an
>> > Extension page.
>> >
>> >
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>> >
>> > This is my +1
>> >
>> > Please report any issues on
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>> >
>> > __Advantages__
>> > - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
>> > website;
>> > - the skin is responsive;
>> > - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
>> > components, etc.);
>> > - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
>> > possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
>> > - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>> >
>> > __Disadvantages__
>> > - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
>> some
>> > time to be detected and fixed;
>> >
>> > __Platform integration problems__
>> > 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we
>> were
>> > to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
>> > currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
>> > some
>> > of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
>> validation
>> > fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>> >
>> > 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
>> ColorThemes
>> > on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
>> > not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
>> some
>> > code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>> >
>> > 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into
>> CSS.
>> > Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the
>> building
>> > of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
>> manual
>> > by using Grunt.
>> >
>> > Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
>> > Caty
>> >
>> > [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ludovic Dubost
>> Founder and CEO
>> Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
>> XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
>> Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[vmassol]

Hi Caty,

Just before giving some arguments below, let me say that I'm very happy that you're working on xwiki.org and I globally like very much what you're doing, no problem there :)

On Sep 27, 2013, at 7:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thank you for your votes. I've integrate the Homepage changes and we are
> using the Junco skin on xwiki.org
>
> __Discussion 1__
> So one of the problems is 'Clearing your Cache'. In order to see the
> changes correctly you need to refresh the page and make sure the cache is
> updated with the new style rules.
> It would be great if someone would know how we could force the clearing of
> the cache. Maybe http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6073 ?
>
> __Discussion 2__
> On a related topic, Vincent thinks we should not use a 'centered' design,
> instead have (just like Colibri has) a 'full width 'design.

TBH I don't know yet what is better yet but I'm asking myself and the comments below are my comments only from first sight. I'm sure I can adapt or have a different opinion given time :)

> I've made some screenshots (please take a look at them in full view):
> * Centered:
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testCentered.png
> **Full width:
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testFull.png

Try with these too:

* http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
* http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/
* http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Main/News

> Why I disagree (having full width and prefer the centered version):
> - xwiki.org is a documentation site so most of its content needs to be
> read;

Centered is nice for websites, ie site for which you control the content and can lay it out nicely. This is not really our case and it's hard to have something that looks nice for all pages.

> - From a readability point of view, if the line is too long it is harder
> for the eye to read it, please read
> http://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability ;

I haven't read this link yet but what I can tell you is that right now I have a hard time reading content because:
* I see only a really small portion of it at once
* The font is quite larger than before

I don't know yet if it's better or worse than before but I certainly need some adaptation time.

I think the main issue is that our UI is too crowded for having a centered + large font UI.

For example I like this site quite a lot (Note that they use the full width too):
http://docs.vagrantup.com/v2/installation/index.html 

It's large too but the interface is very clean and I find it nice. In our case we have various sizes everywhere (look at menu sizes vs content size) and lots of eye distraction with all the menus.

> - Being a responsive skin, for smaller devices the content goes full width,
> so the centered width is just for large resolutions;

Thanks
-Vincent

> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
>>> quite nice.
>>>
>>> I have a few questions.
>>>
>>> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
>>> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
>>> Is that so ?
>>>
>>
>> I've took colibri.css:
>> - stripped it from any rules that Bootstrap already covers (reset,
>> standard html elements, forms, etc.);
>> - mapped what I could to Bootstrap components (tables, boxes, panels,
>> etc.);
>> - stripped layout elements and tried to get rid of ColorThemes values (in
>> the end realizing that I can't, without loosing functionality);
>> - cleaned the remaining selectors and properties (removed IE6,7 rules;
>> removed rules that maybe are covered by Bootstrap; etc.)
>>
>> What remained are classes that will be needed by any new skin; classes
>> that kind of represent the CSS API (although there are still parts that
>> could be moved to their specific component file).
>> I though that if someone makes a change in Colibri and that selector is
>> also in legacy.css it should be ported here (that's why I left the
>> selectors as original).
>>
>> Everything that is in legacy.css could be rewritten in junco.css, but it
>> will create a bigger gap between the two skins.
>>
>>
>>> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
>>> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have
>>> feature
>>> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
>>> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
>>>
>>> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
>>> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
>>>
>>
>> The integration problems are presented above (__Platform integration
>> problems__). One is the need to be able to build LESS files and update them
>> 'on the fly'.
>> Regarding ColorThemes values, there are 2 files:
>> - global/xwiki-colorthemes.less - which is kind of a colorThemeInit.vm
>>
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-colortheme.less
>> - <theme>/xwiki-colortheme.less - which overrides the initialization and
>> provide colors for a specific theme
>> Blueberry example:
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/blueberry/xwiki-colortheme.less
>>
>> So when changing ColorThemes values, we need to make sure we update this
>> files.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
>>> with the new system ?
>>>
>>
>> As stated above, legacy.css is not a limitation. We could rename it from
>> legacy.css to base.css or api.css, we could maybe write some more
>> performant selectors or maybe write them using LESS nested selectors.
>> The file contains the common denominator for Colibri and Junco and some
>> parts of the layout could be removed from it, in order to make it a true
>> API file. All the selectors that will be removed from here will end up in
>> the xwiki-common.less
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-common.less
>>
>> If we rewrite it whole, the only problem is that it will be harder to
>> update both Colibri and Junco.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been
>>> built
>>> on colibri
>>>
>>
>> Because of the mapping between XWiki and Bootstrap the Colibri classes
>> will be covered in Junco.
>> The problem are base HTML elements, that may have other default values.
>> I'm sure tables will produce some problems, because in Colibri they didn't
>> had any default padding, while after mapping they do. If someone use table
>> for layout, there will be some extra spacing.
>> There is not migration path for skins like that. Although we should have
>> minor problems, they will need to be tested and fixed manually.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with
>>> colibri
>>> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
>>> different modules ?
>>>
>>
>> So the current HTML structure is covered by legacy.css and
>> xwiki-mapping.less.
>>
>> If someone will want to change the HTML structure, you need to:
>> - make sure that the classes you delete are not 'API', this means they are
>> not called in legacy or xwiki-mapping. If a class is present in these files
>> means it also has a significance in Colibri;
>> - if you find a certain class, don't delete it. Instead just append your
>> new class or Bootstrap class. Keeping the legacy class, it will have a
>> fallback if Colibri skin will be used.
>>
>> Of course there will be differences between skins if we start using
>> Bootstrap components and that is normal (because Colibri will not know of
>> their existence).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ludovic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>> For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1].
>>> You
>>>> can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
>>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>>>>
>>>> This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
>>>> Theme<
>>>>
>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
>>>>> )
>>>> for xwiki.org.
>>>> I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and
>>> an
>>>> Extension page.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>>>>
>>>> This is my +1
>>>>
>>>> Please report any issues on
>>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>>>>
>>>> __Advantages__
>>>> - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
>>>> website;
>>>> - the skin is responsive;
>>>> - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
>>>> components, etc.);
>>>> - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
>>>> possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
>>>> - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>>>>
>>>> __Disadvantages__
>>>> - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
>>> some
>>>> time to be detected and fixed;
>>>>
>>>> __Platform integration problems__
>>>> 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we
>>> were
>>>> to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
>>>> currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
>>>> some
>>>> of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
>>> validation
>>>> fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>>>>
>>>> 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
>>> ColorThemes
>>>> on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
>>>> not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
>>> some
>>>> code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into
>>> CSS.
>>>> Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the
>>> building
>>>> of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
>>> manual
>>>> by using Grunt.
>>>>
>>>> Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
>>>> Caty
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
>>>> _________________________

_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[Thomas Mortagne]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Thank you for your votes. I've integrate the Homepage changes and we are
> using the Junco skin on xwiki.org
>
> __Discussion 1__
> So one of the problems is 'Clearing your Cache'. In order to see the
> changes correctly you need to refresh the page and make sure the cache is
> updated with the new style rules.
> It would be great if someone would know how we could force the clearing of
> the cache. Maybe http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6073 ?

Yea this one is a tough one we have since a while now...

>
> __Discussion 2__
> On a related topic, Vincent thinks we should not use a 'centered' design,
> instead have (just like Colibri has) a 'full width 'design.
>
> I've made some screenshots (please take a look at them in full view):
> * Centered:
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testCentered.png
> **Full width:
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testFull.png
>
> Why I disagree (having full width and prefer the centered version):
> - xwiki.org is a documentation site so most of its content needs to be
> read;
> - From a readability point of view, if the line is too long it is harder
> for the eye to read it, please read
> http://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability ;
> - Being a responsive skin, for smaller devices the content goes full width,
> so the centered width is just for large resolutions;
>
> Let me know what you think,

Centered is one thing but right now the width of the content is way
too small for me. This can be OK on a website with very few
information but xwiki.org is a wiki, not just a website with a few
pages designed specifically for small width.

Sure I don't need to move my eyes much in
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ but at the same time
it's totally unreadable anyway.

Whatever the scientific arguments I can say that a layout taking the
full available width is way more comfortable for me.

> Caty
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
>>> quite nice.
>>>
>>> I have a few questions.
>>>
>>> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
>>> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible HTML.
>>> Is that so ?
>>>
>>
>> I've took colibri.css:
>> - stripped it from any rules that Bootstrap already covers (reset,
>> standard html elements, forms, etc.);
>> - mapped what I could to Bootstrap components (tables, boxes, panels,
>> etc.);
>> - stripped layout elements and tried to get rid of ColorThemes values (in
>> the end realizing that I can't, without loosing functionality);
>> - cleaned the remaining selectors and properties (removed IE6,7 rules;
>> removed rules that maybe are covered by Bootstrap; etc.)
>>
>> What remained are classes that will be needed by any new skin; classes
>> that kind of represent the CSS API (although there are still parts that
>> could be moved to their specific component file).
>> I though that if someone makes a change in Colibri and that selector is
>> also in legacy.css it should be ported here (that's why I left the
>> selectors as original).
>>
>> Everything that is in legacy.css could be rewritten in junco.css, but it
>> will create a bigger gap between the two skins.
>>
>>
>>> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point where
>>> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have
>>> feature
>>> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their color
>>> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
>>>
>>> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
>>> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
>>>
>>
>> The integration problems are presented above (__Platform integration
>> problems__). One is the need to be able to build LESS files and update them
>> 'on the fly'.
>> Regarding ColorThemes values, there are 2 files:
>> - global/xwiki-colorthemes.less - which is kind of a colorThemeInit.vm
>>
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-colortheme.less
>> - <theme>/xwiki-colortheme.less - which overrides the initialization and
>> provide colors for a specific theme
>> Blueberry example:
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/blueberry/xwiki-colortheme.less
>>
>> So when changing ColorThemes values, we need to make sure we update this
>> files.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
>>> with the new system ?
>>>
>>
>> As stated above, legacy.css is not a limitation. We could rename it from
>> legacy.css to base.css or api.css, we could maybe write some more
>> performant selectors or maybe write them using LESS nested selectors.
>> The file contains the common denominator for Colibri and Junco and some
>> parts of the layout could be removed from it, in order to make it a true
>> API file. All the selectors that will be removed from here will end up in
>> the xwiki-common.less
>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-common.less
>>
>> If we rewrite it whole, the only problem is that it will be harder to
>> update both Colibri and Junco.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been
>>> built
>>> on colibri
>>>
>>
>> Because of the mapping between XWiki and Bootstrap the Colibri classes
>> will be covered in Junco.
>> The problem are base HTML elements, that may have other default values.
>> I'm sure tables will produce some problems, because in Colibri they didn't
>> had any default padding, while after mapping they do. If someone use table
>> for layout, there will be some extra spacing.
>> There is not migration path for skins like that. Although we should have
>> minor problems, they will need to be tested and fixed manually.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with
>>> colibri
>>> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
>>> different modules ?
>>>
>>
>> So the current HTML structure is covered by legacy.css and
>> xwiki-mapping.less.
>>
>> If someone will want to change the HTML structure, you need to:
>> - make sure that the classes you delete are not 'API', this means they are
>> not called in legacy or xwiki-mapping. If a class is present in these files
>> means it also has a significance in Colibri;
>> - if you find a certain class, don't delete it. Instead just append your
>> new class or Bootstrap class. Keeping the legacy class, it will have a
>> fallback if Colibri skin will be used.
>>
>> Of course there will be differences between skins if we start using
>> Bootstrap components and that is normal (because Colibri will not know of
>> their existence).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Ludovic
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>> > Hi devs,
>>> >
>>> > For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1].
>>> You
>>> > can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
>>> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
>>> >
>>> > This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
>>> > Theme<
>>> >
>>> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
>>> > >)
>>> > for xwiki.org.
>>> > I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage and
>>> an
>>> > Extension page.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
>>> >
>>> > This is my +1
>>> >
>>> > Please report any issues on
>>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
>>> >
>>> > __Advantages__
>>> > - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on the
>>> > website;
>>> > - the skin is responsive;
>>> > - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use (grids,
>>> > components, etc.);
>>> > - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
>>> > possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
>>> > - IMO the skin looks nice :)
>>> >
>>> > __Disadvantages__
>>> > - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
>>> some
>>> > time to be detected and fixed;
>>> >
>>> > __Platform integration problems__
>>> > 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if we
>>> were
>>> > to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which we
>>> > currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but lose
>>> > some
>>> > of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
>>> validation
>>> > fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
>>> >
>>> > 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
>>> ColorThemes
>>> > on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this problem. Is
>>> > not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
>>> some
>>> > code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the integration.
>>> >
>>> > 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into
>>> CSS.
>>> > Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the
>>> building
>>> > of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
>>> manual
>>> > by using Grunt.
>>> >
>>> > Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
>>> > Caty
>>> >
>>> > [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > devs mailing list
>>> > [hidden email]
>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ludovic Dubost
>>> Founder and CEO
>>> Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
>>> XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
>>> Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

--
Thomas Mortagne
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

[Guillaume Lerouge-3]

Hi,


On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thank you for your votes. I've integrate the Homepage changes and we are
> > using the Junco skin on xwiki.org
> >
> > __Discussion 1__
> > So one of the problems is 'Clearing your Cache'. In order to see the
> > changes correctly you need to refresh the page and make sure the cache is
> > updated with the new style rules.
> > It would be great if someone would know how we could force the clearing
> of
> > the cache. Maybe http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-6073 ?
>
> Yea this one is a tough one we have since a while now...
>
> >
> > __Discussion 2__
> > On a related topic, Vincent thinks we should not use a 'centered' design,
> > instead have (just like Colibri has) a 'full width 'design.
> >
> > I've made some screenshots (please take a look at them in full view):
> > * Centered:
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testCentered.png
> > **Full width:
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage/testFull.png
> >
> > Why I disagree (having full width and prefer the centered version):
> > - xwiki.org is a documentation site so most of its content needs to be
> > read;
> > - From a readability point of view, if the line is too long it is harder
> > for the eye to read it, please read
> > http://baymard.com/blog/line-length-readability ;
> > - Being a responsive skin, for smaller devices the content goes full
> width,
> > so the centered width is just for large resolutions;
> >
> > Let me know what you think,
>
> Centered is one thing but right now the width of the content is way
> too small for me. This can be OK on a website with very few
> information but xwiki.org is a wiki, not just a website with a few
> pages designed specifically for small width.
>
> Sure I don't need to move my eyes much in
> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ but at the same time
> it's totally unreadable anyway.
>
> Whatever the scientific arguments I can say that a layout taking the
> full available width is way more comfortable for me.
>

I was looking at the site and I think a fixed width would be good for
plenty of pages. For instance on this page:
http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/ReleaseNotes/ReleaseNotesXWiki43#History

Once you scroll down the page on a largish screen (mine's 1680px wide) you
see plenty of one-line text interspersed between images, which is hard to
read.

Thus I'm more in favor of a fixed width website, but maybe slighyly larger
than 960px. Maybe around 1164px wide?

Guillaume

> > Caty
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Ludovic Dubost <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Great job indeed. I installed on a test wiki on a 4.5 farm and it looks
> >>> quite nice.
> >>>
> >>> I have a few questions.
> >>>
> >>> 1/ If I understand properly we have a legacy.css where lives all CSS of
> >>> HTML that would not have been made clean plain bootstrap compatible
> HTML.
> >>> Is that so ?
> >>>
> >>
> >> I've took colibri.css:
> >> - stripped it from any rules that Bootstrap already covers (reset,
> >> standard html elements, forms, etc.);
> >> - mapped what I could to Bootstrap components (tables, boxes, panels,
> >> etc.);
> >> - stripped layout elements and tried to get rid of ColorThemes values
> (in
> >> the end realizing that I can't, without loosing functionality);
> >> - cleaned the remaining selectors and properties (removed IE6,7 rules;
> >> removed rules that maybe are covered by Bootstrap; etc.)
> >>
> >> What remained are classes that will be needed by any new skin; classes
> >> that kind of represent the CSS API (although there are still parts that
> >> could be moved to their specific component file).
> >> I though that if someone makes a change in Colibri and that selector is
> >> also in legacy.css it should be ported here (that's why I left the
> >> selectors as original).
> >>
> >> Everything that is in legacy.css could be rewritten in junco.css, but it
> >> will create a bigger gap between the two skins.
> >>
> >>
> >>> 2/ In terms of work, how much and what is needed to get to a point
> where
> >>> this could become our default skin, knowing that we should not have
> >>> feature
> >>> regression, for instance users should still be able to build their
> color
> >>> themes in Wysiwyg like they can with colibri.
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure we can find a solution to do on the fly compiling when saving
> >>> color themes so to solve the issue of needing LESS.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The integration problems are presented above (__Platform integration
> >> problems__). One is the need to be able to build LESS files and update
> them
> >> 'on the fly'.
> >> Regarding ColorThemes values, there are 2 files:
> >> - global/xwiki-colorthemes.less - which is kind of a colorThemeInit.vm
> >>
> >>
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-colortheme.less
> >> - <theme>/xwiki-colortheme.less - which overrides the initialization and
> >> provide colors for a specific theme
> >> Blueberry example:
> >>
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/blueberry/xwiki-colortheme.less
> >>
> >> So when changing ColorThemes values, we need to make sure we update this
> >> files.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 3/ How much is needed to get rid of legacy and have a fully native skin
> >>> with the new system ?
> >>>
> >>
> >> As stated above, legacy.css is not a limitation. We could rename it from
> >> legacy.css to base.css or api.css, we could maybe write some more
> >> performant selectors or maybe write them using LESS nested selectors.
> >> The file contains the common denominator for Colibri and Junco and some
> >> parts of the layout could be removed from it, in order to make it a true
> >> API file. All the selectors that will be removed from here will end up
> in
> >> the xwiki-common.less
> >>
> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/blob/junco-themes/global/xwiki-common.less
> >>
> >> If we rewrite it whole, the only problem is that it will be harder to
> >> update both Colibri and Junco.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 4/ What is the migration path for a wiki where a custom skin has been
> >>> built
> >>> on colibri
> >>>
> >>
> >> Because of the mapping between XWiki and Bootstrap the Colibri classes
> >> will be covered in Junco.
> >> The problem are base HTML elements, that may have other default values.
> >> I'm sure tables will produce some problems, because in Colibri they
> didn't
> >> had any default padding, while after mapping they do. If someone use
> table
> >> for layout, there will be some extra spacing.
> >> There is not migration path for skins like that. Although we should have
> >> minor problems, they will need to be tested and fixed manually.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> 5/ What are the potential consequences on future compatibility with
> >>> colibri
> >>> based skin, particularly if we start modifying our HTML produced by
> >>> different modules ?
> >>>
> >>
> >> So the current HTML structure is covered by legacy.css and
> >> xwiki-mapping.less.
> >>
> >> If someone will want to change the HTML structure, you need to:
> >> - make sure that the classes you delete are not 'API', this means they
> are
> >> not called in legacy or xwiki-mapping. If a class is present in these
> files
> >> means it also has a significance in Colibri;
> >> - if you find a certain class, don't delete it. Instead just append your
> >> new class or Bootstrap class. Keeping the legacy class, it will have a
> >> fallback if Colibri skin will be used.
> >>
> >> Of course there will be differences between skins if we start using
> >> Bootstrap components and that is normal (because Colibri will not know
> of
> >> their existence).
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Caty
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Ludovic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2013/9/20 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> >>>
> >>> > Hi devs,
> >>> >
> >>> > For the past weeks I've been working on a skin based on Bootstrap[1].
> >>> You
> >>> > can read more about it and test the new Junco Skin at
> >>> > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin
> >>> >
> >>> > This proposal is about using the Junco Skin (Blueberry
> >>> > Theme<
> >>> >
> >>>
> http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Junco+Skin#HTheme:Blueberry
> >>> > >)
> >>> > for xwiki.org.
> >>> > I prepared some responsive screenshots for the xwiki.org Homepage
> and
> >>> an
> >>> > Extension page.
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/XWikiOrgJuncoHomepage
> >>> >
> >>> > This is my +1
> >>> >
> >>> > Please report any issues on
> >>> https://github.com/evalica/bootswatch/issues
> >>> >
> >>> > __Advantages__
> >>> > - a change is always welcomed, shows the users there is activity on
> the
> >>> > website;
> >>> > - the skin is responsive;
> >>> > - by using Bootstrap we have the whole framework's power to use
> (grids,
> >>> > components, etc.);
> >>> > - we have the chance to test a bit the skin in production and see the
> >>> > possible bugs, in order to later integrate;
> >>> > - IMO the skin looks nice :)
> >>> >
> >>> > __Disadvantages__
> >>> > - the only disadvantage is that there will be bugs and they will take
> >>> some
> >>> > time to be detected and fixed;
> >>> >
> >>> > __Platform integration problems__
> >>> > 1. currently the new skin uses the HTML5 doctype. This is needed if
> we
> >>> were
> >>> > to use some Bootstrap JS components (carousel, menus, etc.) - which
> we
> >>> > currently don't on xwiki.org, so I could use the old doctype (but
> lose
> >>> > some
> >>> > of the testing purpose). Because of the HTML5 doctype, the HTML
> >>> validation
> >>> > fails. See http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-7552
> >>> >
> >>> > 2. Junco Skin currently doesn't  have support for changing the
> >>> ColorThemes
> >>> > on the fly. I would need the help of a developer to fix this
> problem. Is
> >>> > not so much a problem for xwiki.org (I could fix them by duplicating
> >>> some
> >>> > code in the xwiki.org skin), but it is a problem for the
> integration.
> >>> >
> >>> > 3. Being build on Bootstrap, it needs LESS to compile the files into
> >>> CSS.
> >>> > Again I would need a developer to see how we could integrate the
> >>> building
> >>> > of the themes in platform. Right now this is done locally, partially
> >>> manual
> >>> > by using Grunt.
> >>> >
> >>> > Tell me what you think and take some time to test the skin,
> >>> > Caty
> >>> >
> >>> > [1] http://getbootstrap.com/
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > devs mailing list
> >>> > [hidden email]
> >>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Ludovic Dubost
> >>> Founder and CEO
> >>> Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
> >>> XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
> >>> Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> devs mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>

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