[UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

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[UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments

Feedback is welcomed.

Thanks,
Caty
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Caty,

On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>
> Feedback is welcomed.

It looks good.

I have some questions:

* I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole page if possible)

* We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely for WCAG?

Thanks
-Vincent
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Raluca Stavro
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hello,

The idea is very nice!
What I would like to see is the text of the syntax versions (v1.0,
v2.0, v2.1) being bigger and/or their colors being more intense.
This way the user will figure out right away how many and what syntax
versions XWiki provides and it will be easier for him to play with
those syntax versions.
I know that you chose those colors in order to look good on white
background, this is why maybe a bold or a bigger text size would be
better.
Otherwise, it looks very good :)

Raluca.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>
> Feedback is welcomed.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 21:03, Raluca Stavro <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The idea is very nice!
> What I would like to see is the text of the syntax versions (v1.0,
> v2.0, v2.1) being bigger and/or their colors being more intense.
> This way the user will figure out right away how many and what syntax
> versions XWiki provides and it will be easier for him to play with
> those syntax versions.
>

I don't think this is the purpose of XWikiSyntax page, to see how many
syntaxes we have and to play with them.
The purpose is to understand how you can interact with the editor (by
writing the correct syntax) in order to get what you want.
IMO, working with an old syntax or trying an experimental one is not the
main focus of most users. So changing the syntaxes is a secondary action and
is targeted toward old users or devs .

By default, the page will display the recommended/supported syntax (right
now 2.0, this being also the default syntax when editing).


> I know that you chose those colors in order to look good on white
> background, this is why maybe a bold or a bigger text size would be
> better.
> Otherwise, it looks very good :)
>

So, yes we can play with the colors but I wouldn't want to make the bolder
or bigger in order to pop out.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Raluca.
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
> >
> > Feedback is welcomed.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by vmassol
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
> >
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
> >
> > Feedback is welcomed.
>
> It looks good.
>
> I have some questions:
>
> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
> page if possible)
>
>
I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
+ the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
easier to follow the nesting) ;

+ if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
the content and needing to click each time.

- the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
and use another anchor.
The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
related action menu).



> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
> for WCAG?
>

About WCAG:

- the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).

- we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);

- because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
others), Example:

<dt>term2</dt>
 :; term2
 <dd>definition2</dd>
 :: definition2

will be marked:

[Syntax 1.0]
<dt>term2</dt>
<dd>definition2</dd>

[Syntax 2.0]
:; term2
:: definition2

[Comparison]
[Syntax 1.0] <dt>term2</dt>
[Syntax 2.0] :; term2
[Syntax 1.0] <dd>definition2</dd>
[Syntax 2.0] :: definition2

 Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
proposal to show the hidden markup.
Thanks,
Caty
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:40, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]>wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>> >
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>> >
>> > Feedback is welcomed.
>>
>> It looks good.
>>
>> I have some questions:
>>
>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>> page if possible)
>>
>>
> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>
> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
> the content and needing to click each time.
>
> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
> and use another anchor.
> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
> related action menu).
>
>
>
>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>> for WCAG?
>>
>
> About WCAG:
>
> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>
> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>
> - because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code
> is mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that
> will mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for
> the others), Example:
>
> <dt>term2</dt>
>  :; term2
>  <dd>definition2</dd>
>  :: definition2
>
> will be marked:
>
> [Syntax 1.0]
> <dt>term2</dt>
> <dd>definition2</dd>
>
> [Syntax 2.0]
> :; term2
> :: definition2
>
> [Comparison]
> [Syntax 1.0] <dt>term2</dt>
> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
> [Syntax 1.0] <dd>definition2</dd>
> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>

Actually this is described at:
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G14.html

What we need to add is the active state for the syntax chooser, that is
marked now using background-images bullets.


>
>  Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
> proposal to show the hidden markup.
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)

On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>>
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>
>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>
>> It looks good.
>>
>> I have some questions:
>>
>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>> page if possible)
>>
>>
> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.

TOC is good but a nicer left menu is even better IMO.
I'd envision something similar to the left menu in the new admin UI you've been working on.
Note that it's not a big point and it could be done as a second step later on.

> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>
> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
> the content and needing to click each time.

Yes this is the part that I don't like too much. It makes the page look a bit huge and messy.

However we could have the best of both worlds with something like:
http://confluence.atlassian.com/renderer/notationhelp.action
(check the ALL entry)

> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
> and use another anchor.

Yes.

> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
> related action menu).

Or a panel on the left.

>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>> for WCAG?
>>
>
> About WCAG:
>
> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>
> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>
> - because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
> mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
> mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
> others), Example:
>
> <dt>term2</dt>
> :; term2
> <dd>definition2</dd>
> :: definition2
>
> will be marked:
>
> [Syntax 1.0]
> <dt>term2</dt>
> <dd>definition2</dd>
>
> [Syntax 2.0]
> :; term2
> :: definition2
>
> [Comparison]
> [Syntax 1.0] <dt>term2</dt>
> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
> [Syntax 1.0] <dd>definition2</dd>
> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>
> Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
> proposal to show the hidden markup.

ok thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Raluca Stavro
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hello,

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:57 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 21:03, Raluca Stavro <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The idea is very nice!
>> What I would like to see is the text of the syntax versions (v1.0,
>> v2.0, v2.1) being bigger and/or their colors being more intense.
>> This way the user will figure out right away how many and what syntax
>> versions XWiki provides and it will be easier for him to play with
>> those syntax versions.
>>
>
> I don't think this is the purpose of XWikiSyntax page, to see how many
> syntaxes we have and to play with them.
> The purpose is to understand how you can interact with the editor (by
> writing the correct syntax) in order to get what you want.
> IMO, working with an old syntax or trying an experimental one is not the
> main focus of most users. So changing the syntax is a secondary action and
> is targeted toward old users or devs .
True, but old users are important users and we want them to learn fast
how to convert 1.0 syntax into 2.0 or 2.1 syntax.
What would be the primer actions in this case?
Even if an action is secondary, its text should be easy to read. Given
the fact that the font size is small, maybe stronger color contrasts
would help in order to increase readability.

>
> By default, the page will display the recommended/supported syntax (right
> now 2.0, this being also the default syntax when editing).

I also think that the user should visually understand what is the
default syntax displayed (2.0 in this case). Increasing the color
contrast would probably solve this problem too.

Raluca.

>
>
>> I know that you chose those colors in order to look good on white
>> background, this is why maybe a bold or a bigger text size would be
>> better.
>> Otherwise, it looks very good :)
>>
>
> So, yes we can play with the colors but I wouldn't want to make the bolder
> or bigger in order to pop out.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>> Raluca.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>> >
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>> >
>> > Feedback is welcomed.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Caty
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Marius Dumitru Florea
In reply to this post by vmassol
On 11/18/2010 12:56 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:

>
> On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Caty,
>>>
>>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>>>
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>>
>>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>>
>>> It looks good.
>>>
>>> I have some questions:
>>>
>>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>>> page if possible)
>>>
>>>
>> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
>
> TOC is good but a nicer left menu is even better IMO.
> I'd envision something similar to the left menu in the new admin UI you've been working on.
> Note that it's not a big point and it could be done as a second step later on.
>
>> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
>> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
>> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
>> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
>> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
>> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>>
>> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
>> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
>> the content and needing to click each time.
>
> Yes this is the part that I don't like too much. It makes the page look a bit huge and messy.
>
> However we could have the best of both worlds with something like:

> http://confluence.atlassian.com/renderer/notationhelp.action

Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
section title.

I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.

Thanks,
Marius

> (check the ALL entry)
>
>> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
>> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
>> and use another anchor.
>
> Yes.
>
>> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
>> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
>> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
>> related action menu).
>
> Or a panel on the left.
>
>>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>>> for WCAG?
>>>
>>
>> About WCAG:
>>
>> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
>> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
>> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
>> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
>> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>>
>> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
>> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>>
>> - because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
>> mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
>> mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
>> others), Example:
>>
>> <dt>term2</dt>
>> :; term2
>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>> :: definition2
>>
>> will be marked:
>>
>> [Syntax 1.0]
>> <dt>term2</dt>
>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>
>> [Syntax 2.0]
>> :; term2
>> :: definition2
>>
>> [Comparison]
>> [Syntax 1.0]<dt>term2</dt>
>> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
>> [Syntax 1.0]<dd>definition2</dd>
>> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>>
>> Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
>> proposal to show the hidden markup.
>
> ok thanks
> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Anca Luca


On 11/19/2010 08:44 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:

> On 11/18/2010 12:56 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>>>>
>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>>>
>>>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>>>
>>>> It looks good.
>>>>
>>>> I have some questions:
>>>>
>>>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>>>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>>>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>>>> page if possible)
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
>>
>> TOC is good but a nicer left menu is even better IMO.
>> I'd envision something similar to the left menu in the new admin UI you've been working on.
>> Note that it's not a big point and it could be done as a second step later on.
>>
>>> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
>>> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
>>> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
>>> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
>>> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
>>> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>>>
>>> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
>>> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
>>> the content and needing to click each time.
>>
>> Yes this is the part that I don't like too much. It makes the page look a bit huge and messy.
>>
>> However we could have the best of both worlds with something like:
>
>> http://confluence.atlassian.com/renderer/notationhelp.action
>
> Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
> given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
> integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
> section title.
>
> I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
> scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
> I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.

I agree. Also, it took me a while to understand how it works. I would
have expected to work like tabs and switch to the clicked syntax only.
At first it felt like random stuff being displayed, which I blamed on a
potential bug in the mocked interaction.
Also I wonder how does that scale... (if you have 7 syntaxes, it's gonna
be a lot of strikedthrough text).

I wonder if the benefits of the inline comparison (which are those,
btw?) are bigger than the drawbacks of not understanding how it works
and the amount of clicks needed to get the code.

WDYT?

Anca

>
> Thanks,
> Marius
>
>> (check the ALL entry)
>>
>>> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
>>> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
>>> and use another anchor.
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>>> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
>>> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
>>> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
>>> related action menu).
>>
>> Or a panel on the left.
>>
>>>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>>>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>>>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>>>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>>>> for WCAG?
>>>>
>>>
>>> About WCAG:
>>>
>>> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
>>> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
>>> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
>>> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
>>> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>>>
>>> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
>>> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>>>
>>> - because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
>>> mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
>>> mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
>>> others), Example:
>>>
>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>> :; term2
>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>> :: definition2
>>>
>>> will be marked:
>>>
>>> [Syntax 1.0]
>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>>
>>> [Syntax 2.0]
>>> :; term2
>>> :: definition2
>>>
>>> [Comparison]
>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dt>term2</dt>
>>> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dd>definition2</dd>
>>> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>>>
>>> Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
>>> proposal to show the hidden markup.
>>
>> ok thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:06, Anca Luca <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/19/2010 08:44 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
>> On 11/18/2010 12:56 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>
>>> On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>>>>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>>>>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>>>>> page if possible)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
>>>
>>> TOC is good but a nicer left menu is even better IMO.
>>> I'd envision something similar to the left menu in the new admin UI you've been working on.
>>> Note that it's not a big point and it could be done as a second step later on.
>>>
>>>> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
>>>> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
>>>> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
>>>> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
>>>> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
>>>> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>>>>
>>>> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
>>>> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
>>>> the content and needing to click each time.
>>>
>>> Yes this is the part that I don't like too much. It makes the page look a bit huge and messy.
>>>
>>> However we could have the best of both worlds with something like:
>>
>>> http://confluence.atlassian.com/renderer/notationhelp.action
>>
>> Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
>> given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
>> integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
>> section title.
>>
>> I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
>> scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
>> I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.
>
> I agree. Also, it took me a while to understand how it works. I would
> have expected to work like tabs and switch to the clicked syntax only.
> At first it felt like random stuff being displayed, which I blamed on a
> potential bug in the mocked interaction.
> Also I wonder how does that scale... (if you have 7 syntaxes, it's gonna
> be a lot of strikedthrough text).
>
> I wonder if the benefits of the inline comparison (which are those,
> btw?) are bigger than the drawbacks of not understanding how it works
> and the amount of clicks needed to get the code.

I have a same doubt, it took me a while to understand how this was
working. Choosen examples are not really good to see the benefit of
this since comparing HTML and wiki syntax is pretty useless.

>
> WDYT?
>
> Anca
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>>> (check the ALL entry)
>>>
>>>> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
>>>> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
>>>> and use another anchor.
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
>>>> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
>>>> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
>>>> related action menu).
>>>
>>> Or a panel on the left.
>>>
>>>>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>>>>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>>>>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>>>>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>>>>> for WCAG?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> About WCAG:
>>>>
>>>> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
>>>> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
>>>> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
>>>> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
>>>> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>>>>
>>>> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
>>>> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>>>>
>>>> - because of the comparison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
>>>> mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
>>>> mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
>>>> others), Example:
>>>>
>>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>>> :; term2
>>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>>> :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> will be marked:
>>>>
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]
>>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>>>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0]
>>>> :; term2
>>>> :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> [Comparison]
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dt>term2</dt>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dd>definition2</dd>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
>>>> proposal to show the hidden markup.
>>>
>>> ok thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Silvia Rusu
In reply to this post by Anca Luca
Hi,

Pe 19.11.2010 11:06, Anca Luca a scris:

>
> On 11/19/2010 08:44 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
>> On 11/18/2010 12:56 PM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>> On Nov 18, 2010, at 11:40 AM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 20:45, Vincent Massol<[hidden email]>    wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 17, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>>>> It looks good.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some questions:
>>>>>
>>>>> * I think it would be good to have a menu on the left listing all the
>>>>> syntax "domains": text formatting, tables, sections, etc and when you click
>>>>> on "domains" you get the doc for that domain (without reloading the whole
>>>>> page if possible)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I think this feature is already covered by the TOC.
>>> TOC is good but a nicer left menu is even better IMO.
>>> I'd envision something similar to the left menu in the new admin UI you've been working on.
>>> Note that it's not a big point and it could be done as a second step later on.
>>>
>>>> The main reasons I like it in the current form are:
>>>> + the toc gives you a way to navigate to the desired section and this is
>>>> accessible/visible since the beginning of the page. We could improve here by
>>>> grouping into some categories (text editing, development, multimedia) and
>>>> also using some numbers to show the hierarchy 1., 1.1, etc. (makes it much
>>>> easier to follow the nesting) ;
>>>>
>>>> + if you want to browse the content, learn the syntax or just see XWiki
>>>> syntax capabilities, is much easier to do this by scrolling than segmenting
>>>> the content and needing to click each time.
>>> Yes this is the part that I don't like too much. It makes the page look a bit huge and messy.
>>>
>>> However we could have the best of both worlds with something like:
>>> http://confluence.atlassian.com/renderer/notationhelp.action
>> Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
>> given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
>> integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
>> section title.
>>
>> I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
>> scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
>> I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.
> I agree. Also, it took me a while to understand how it works. I would
> have expected to work like tabs and switch to the clicked syntax only.
> At first it felt like random stuff being displayed, which I blamed on a
> potential bug in the mocked interaction.
> Also I wonder how does that scale... (if you have 7 syntaxes, it's gonna
> be a lot of strikedthrough text).
>
> I wonder if the benefits of the inline comparison (which are those,
> btw?) are bigger than the drawbacks of not understanding how it works
> and the amount of clicks needed to get the code.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Anca
>
+1

I didn't understand immediately the current syntax. It took me a couple
of minutes to figure it out. I believe this can be improved from a
visual POV, however the issue of one too many clicks remains. I'd like
to be able to view one syntax and after that click on another syntax
(and see solely that) in order to copy content or even compare the
different syntaxes.
I find more value in spotting the differences by clicking on the
syntaxes, rather than using the inline comparison, especially for big
chunks of syntax & code. Taking into consideration making such a
comparison implies going back and forth a few times, it can become
annoying to select, select, deselect, select, deselect, select,
deselect, etc.

Thanks,
Silvia

>> Thanks,
>> Marius
>>
>>> (check the ALL entry)
>>>
>>>> - the negative part about the current model is when you want to access two
>>>> non-sequential categories: you either scroll until you find it, or go top
>>>> and use another anchor.
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>>> The generic solution for this problem (and this targets all pages, which is
>>>> much nicer than building something custom just for the Syntax page) is the
>>>> option to select to have a following TOC (the way we have now the page
>>>> related action menu).
>>> Or a panel on the left.
>>>
>>>>> * We need to ensure that this syntax help page is accessible for people
>>>>> with deficiencies (ie it must pass WCAG) since some of them won't be able to
>>>>> use the WYSIWYG editor they'll need to use the wiki editor and thus know how
>>>>> to write in wiki syntax. How could we make the syntax chooser work nicely
>>>>> for WCAG?
>>>>>
>>>> About WCAG:
>>>>
>>>> - the main problem with generated tables from wiki markup is that they lack
>>>> summary attr. We can fix this by creating a macro that creates the table
>>>> header, and we need one because the header will need to specify the syntaxes
>>>> available for the specific feature (some features will be available just for
>>>> syntax 2.0 and 2.1 for example).
>>>>
>>>> - we will improve the syntax chooser to conform with Link guidelines (will
>>>> have underline, be marked as links and have title attr);
>>>>
>>>> - because of the ison feature between syntaxes, various syntax code is
>>>> mixed. For people that use screen readers will have hidden markup that will
>>>> mark each line, and also have final total code written (not visible for the
>>>> others), Example:
>>>>
>>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>>> :; term2
>>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>>> :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> will be marked:
>>>>
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]
>>>> <dt>term2</dt>
>>>> <dd>definition2</dd>
>>>>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0]
>>>> :; term2
>>>> :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> [Comparison]
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dt>term2</dt>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0] :; term2
>>>> [Syntax 1.0]<dd>definition2</dd>
>>>> [Syntax 2.0] :: definition2
>>>>
>>>> Please tell me if there are other WCAG problems. I will improve the
>>>> proposal to show the hidden markup.
>>> ok thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

_______________________________________________
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Silvia Rusu
Tester & Documentation Writer - XWiki
http://twitter.com/silviarusu
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

sorinello
In reply to this post by Raluca Stavro
On 11/17/2010 09:03 PM, Raluca Stavro wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The idea is very nice!
> What I would like to see is the text of the syntax versions (v1.0,
> v2.0, v2.1) being bigger and/or their colors being more intense.
> This way the user will figure out right away how many and what syntax
> versions XWiki provides and it will be easier for him to play with
> those syntax versions.
> I know that you chose those colors in order to look good on white
> background, this is why maybe a bold or a bigger text size would be
> better.
> Otherwise, it looks very good :)
>
> Raluca.
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> <[hidden email]>  wrote:
>    
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>
>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>      
>
Hello

This is a good alternative to our current syntax page.
I am only worried about 2 things :
     1.copy/paste is a bit faulty (as Marius said), but I guess this is
just a bug in the prototype.
     2.also, it would be a idea to have a global syntax button, so
pressing it once, will switch all the syntaxes to a specific version.
IMO, the point it to see the syntax user is interested in, not to make
comparations between syntaxes.

Besides these 2 things, +1.

Regards,
Sorin B.
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Ciprian Amaritei
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi Caty,
I suggest not to use different colors for syntax chooser buttons since some
readability issues may occur when changing the background color of the table
header. An idea would be to use different shades of gray for background as I
tried in the attached image.

Thanks Ciprian.

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>
> Feedback is welcomed.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>


--
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Designer
XWiki

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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 13:57, Ciprian Amaritei
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Caty,
> I suggest not to use different colors for syntax chooser buttons since some
> readability issues may occur when changing the background color of the table
> header. An idea would be to use different shades of gray for background as I
> tried in the attached image.

+1 for what i can see in the attached image

>
> Thanks Ciprian.
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>
>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ciprian,
> Designer
> XWiki
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>



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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Raluca Stavro
Hello,

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 3:34 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 13:57, Ciprian Amaritei
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Caty,
>> I suggest not to use different colors for syntax chooser buttons since some
>> readability issues may occur when changing the background color of the table
>> header. An idea would be to use different shades of gray for background as I
>> tried in the attached image.
>
> +1 for what i can see in the attached image

I would be +1 too, but what about the link between the syntax 'button'
and the sample text? On having 2 syntax enabled, for example 1.0 and
2.0, if you go on another another page (new tab), when coming back to
the syntax page, it will be hard for you to remember which one is 1.0
syntax and which one is 2.0 syntax.

If we drop the idea of multiple syntax selection, then yes, your
solution looks good.

Raluca.

>
>>
>> Thanks Ciprian.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>
>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ciprian,
>> Designer
>> XWiki
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Raluca Stavro
In reply to this post by Marius Dumitru Florea
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea
<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
> given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
> integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
> section title.

+1 to remove the 'Feature' column.

Raluca.

>
> I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
> scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
> I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.
>
> Thanks,
> Marius
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

ThibautDeveraux
Hi,

Seems nice the way it is now, just details

- I didn't test it, yet I have a doubt on the styling of the v1.0, v2.0
contrast for accessibility.

- The comparaison feature which let activate both v1.0 and v2.0 may be too
much. I've been lost on priting syntaxes myself.

1/ I had V2.0 activated http://screencast.com/t/mUfVjzP4M

2/ I wanted to see V2.0

3/ So I clicked on v2.0

4/ I saw stange crossed-out lines. http://screencast.com/t/Eybn7zsXW

5/ I feld confused

6/ I understood it was a sort of comparaison

7/ I tried to click on buttons, not understanding very well how to display
it correctly

8/ I saw a Blank screen ! http://screencast.com/t/4xprQjLI9S

9/ I managed to have only V2.0 printed. http://screencast.com/t/wAi4kevro

10/ I understood how work the system (select one, select both, select
neither)

All of this took me approximatively 3s but it letted me confused. Would'nt
it be simpler and most effective to have only a select one system ? I'm not
sure the crossed out lines help a lot. Wich is needed is mostly global
understanding of the syntaxe on this example.

Have a nice day

Thibaut DEVERAUX
Tel : 06 75 51 20 80
[hidden email]
http://www.thib-d.com


2010/11/19 Raluca Stavro <[hidden email]>

> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 8:44 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Nice. This also shows that we don't need 3 columns. The information
> > given by the "Feature" columns (which takes a lot of space) can be
> > integrated in the other columns or moved outside of the table in a
> > section title.
>
> +1 to remove the 'Feature' column.
>
> Raluca.
>
> >
> > I don't like the syntax chooser but I don't have a better solution (that
> > scales with the number/version of syntaxes). For each non-default syntax
> > I have to click twice to be able to copy&paste the example in  my page.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Marius
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by Ciprian Amaritei
On 11/19/2010 01:57 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:

> Hi Caty,
> I suggest not to use different colors for syntax chooser buttons since some
> readability issues may occur when changing the background color of the table
> header. An idea would be to use different shades of gray for background as I
> tried in the attached image.
>
> Thanks Ciprian.
>
> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)<
> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>
>> Feedback is welcomed.

Personally I don't find it useful at all to be able to display more than
one syntax at a time. On the contrary, it's confusing, with all the
different colors and strike-through, and intermixed lines. Instead of a
checkbox behavior, I'd like a radio button behavior.

I'd also like a global syntax switcher, since users rarely want to look
at mixed syntaxes.

And this brings me to the main point, who is this page for, and how is
it going to be used?

I think that since this is a syntax help, most people will use it as a
quick reference for the syntax they need to use at the moment, not as a
comparison tool to check which of the syntaxes is the coolest.

--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Re: [UX][Proposal] XWikiSyntax Page

vmassol
Administrator

On Nov 21, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Sergiu Dumitriu wrote:

> On 11/19/2010 01:57 PM, Ciprian Amaritei wrote:
>> Hi Caty,
>> I suggest not to use different colors for syntax chooser buttons since some
>> readability issues may occur when changing the background color of the table
>> header. An idea would be to use different shades of gray for background as I
>> tried in the attached image.
>>
>> Thanks Ciprian.
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)<
>> [hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> This is a proposal for compacting the way we show XWiki Syntaxes
>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/SyntaxExperiments
>>>
>>> Feedback is welcomed.
>
> Personally I don't find it useful at all to be able to display more than
> one syntax at a time. On the contrary, it's confusing, with all the
> different colors and strike-through, and intermixed lines. Instead of a
> checkbox behavior, I'd like a radio button behavior.
>
> I'd also like a global syntax switcher, since users rarely want to look
> at mixed syntaxes.

That was my first reaction too.

> And this brings me to the main point, who is this page for, and how is
> it going to be used?

It's the help page that you get when you click on help when in wiki edit mode.

> I think that since this is a syntax help, most people will use it as a
> quick reference for the syntax they need to use at the moment, not as a
> comparison tool to check which of the syntaxes is the coolest.

I agree.

Thanks
-Vincent

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