[Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

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[Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.

One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
Administration".

Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.

This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
section of Administration
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1

Let me know what you think,
Caty

[1]
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Tasks5/Prioritization/
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
+1

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
>
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Tasks5/Prioritization/



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi Caty,

I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.

Several questions:
* What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin? Using a color theme?
* Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins & in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
* What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e. where is it materialized?

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
>
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Tasks5/Prioritization/

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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Alex Cotiugă
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
+1

Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term to
loose its meaning for
what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
the Presentation section for
changing something like Logo. Then, would we consider to make logo
changeable as is the profile
picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?

Thanks,
Alex

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >
> > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> > Administration".
> >
> > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >
> > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > section of Administration
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> go#HSolution1-1
> >
> > Let me know what you think,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1]
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> sks5/Prioritization/
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by vmassol
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>
> Several questions:
> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which
> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins &
> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> where is it materialized?
>

Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point of
view.
In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the Color
Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.

The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in XWiki
to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >
> > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> > Administration".
> >
> > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >
> > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > section of Administration
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >
> > Let me know what you think,
> > Caty
> >
> > [1]
> > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Alex Cotiugă
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1
>
> Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term to
> loose its meaning for
> what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
> the Presentation section for
> changing something like Logo.


Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.



> Then, would we consider to make logo
> changeable as is the profile
> picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
>

I don't understand this question.


>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > >
> > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> > > Administration".
> > >
> > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > >
> > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> > > section of Administration
> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > go#HSolution1-1
> > >
> > > Let me know what you think,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > sks5/Prioritization/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
> >
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Alex Cotiugă
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term
> to
> > loose its meaning for
> > what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first in
> > the Presentation section for
> > changing something like Logo.
>
>
> Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
> the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
> there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.
>
>
>
> > Then, would we consider to make logo
> > changeable as is the profile
> > picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
> >
>
> I don't understand this question.

I'm talking about showing the edit mark (pencil) to admin users right on
the logo in the header adn be able to edit it right there.
I attached a picture in the proposal:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo/editableLogo.png
I think this way it would be even easier for users to change logo. Is not
about Admin section but about easing the way the logo is changed.

>
>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Alex
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > tests
> > > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > issues
> > > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > > >
> > > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> section
> > in
> > > > Administration".
> > > >
> > > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> > to
> > > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> is
> > a
> > > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > > >
> > > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> Themes
> > > > section of Administration
> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > > go#HSolution1-1
> > > >
> > > > Let me know what you think,
> > > > Caty
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > > sks5/Prioritization/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Mortagne
> > >
> >
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:56 PM, Alex Cotiugă <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]
> > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:32 PM, Alex Cotiugă <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > Adding more elements in the Themes section could make the `Themes` term
> > to
> > > loose its meaning for
> > > what is configurable inside.As a user, I might be tempted to go first
> in
> > > the Presentation section for
> > > changing something like Logo.
> >
> >
> > Because Skin and Color Themes have logo functionalities and also because
> > the Look & Feel section description mentions you can change the Logo from
> > there, these were the criteria based on what I've chosen the section.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Then, would we consider to make logo
> > > changeable as is the profile
> > > picture (making the logo editable directly in header)?
> > >
> >
> > I don't understand this question.
>
> I'm talking about showing the edit mark (pencil) to admin users right on
> the logo in the header adn be able to edit it right there.
> I attached a picture in the proposal:
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/download/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo/editableLogo.png
> I think this way it would be even easier for users to change logo. Is not
> about Admin section but about easing the way the logo is changed.
>

This was proposed by Olivier, some time ago. Still I would prefer that we
leave the navigation functionality for the logo as the primary action.
Admins change the logo just in the beginning. Is not a recurrent action,
but one important that they expect to find in the Administration.


>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Mortagne <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > +1
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 2:34 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
> > > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > > tests
> > > > > performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > > issues
> > > > > that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > > > >
> > > > > One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> > section
> > > in
> > > > > Administration".
> > > > >
> > > > > Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
> struggle
> > > to
> > > > > find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> > is
> > > a
> > > > > lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> > Themes
> > > > > section of Administration
> > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLo
> > > > go#HSolution1-1
> > > > >
> > > > > Let me know what you think,
> > > > > Caty
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > > http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/Ta
> > > > sks5/Prioritization/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Guillaume Delhumeau
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
+1

2018-02-09 14:34 GMT+01:00 Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>
> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
> Administration".
>
> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>
> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> section of Administration
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>
> Let me know what you think,
> Caty
>
> [1]
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>



--
Guillaume Delhumeau ([hidden email])
Research & Development Engineer at XWiki SAS
Committer on the XWiki.org project
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi,

> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>>
>> Several questions:
>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo, which
>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins &
>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>> where is it materialized?
>>
>
> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point of
> view.
> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the Color
> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>
> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in XWiki
> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.

Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote) since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones, making the situation even more complex…

So for me we need to:
1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI. Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds a logo to it? Does it do something else?

I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin? Using a color theme?"

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability tests
>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some issues
>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>>
>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section in
>>> Administration".
>>>
>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle to
>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is a
>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>>
>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
>>> section of Administration
>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think,
>>> Caty
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>> Tasks5/Prioritization/

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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Marius Dumitru Florea
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> >>
> >> Several questions:
> >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> which
> >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
> &
> >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> >> where is it materialized?
> >>
> >
> > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> of
> > view.
> > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> Color
> > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >
> > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> XWiki
> > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>
> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
> making the situation even more complex…
>
> So for me we need to:
> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>

I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
logo specified on the color theme.


>
> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> Using a color theme?"
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>
> >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> >>> Administration".
> >>>
> >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>
> >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> >>> section of Administration
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>
> >>> Let me know what you think,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by vmassol
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
> >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> >>
> >> Several questions:
> >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
> >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> which
> >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
> &
> >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> >> where is it materialized?
> >>
> >
> > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> of
> > view.
> > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
> > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
> > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> Color
> > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >
> > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> XWiki
> > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>
> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
> making the situation even more complex…
>
> So for me we need to:
> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>

It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically - I
guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.


>
> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> Using a color theme?"
>

The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
can rephrase it.

Thanks,
Caty


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> tests
> >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> issues
> >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>
> >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
> in
> >>> Administration".
> >>>
> >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> to
> >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
> a
> >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>
> >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
> >>> section of Administration
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>
> >>> Let me know what you think,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>> [1]
> >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Marius Dumitru Florea
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Caty,
> > >>
> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> overridden
> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> > >>
> > >> Several questions:
> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> Using a
> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> > which
> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> skins
> > &
> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> > >> where is it materialized?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> > of
> > > view.
> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> this
> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> skin
> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> > Color
> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> > >
> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> > XWiki
> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> >
> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> ones,
> > making the situation even more complex…
> >
> > So for me we need to:
> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> would
> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> either?
> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> attach
> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> adds
> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> >
>
> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
> logo specified on the color theme.
>

The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't have
logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.

Thanks,
Caty


>
>
> >
> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
> it
> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> > Using a color theme?"
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Caty
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> -Vincent
> > >>
> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> > tests
> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> > issues
> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> > >>>
> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> section
> > in
> > >>> Administration".
> > >>>
> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> > to
> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> is
> > a
> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> > >>>
> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> Themes
> > >>> section of Administration
> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> > >>>
> > >>> Let me know what you think,
> > >>> Caty
> > >>>
> > >>> [1]
> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> > >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
> >
> >
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi Caty,
>> > >>
>> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>> overridden
>> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>> > >>
>> > >> Several questions:
>> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>> Using a
>> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> > which
>> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>> skins
>> > &
>> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>> > >> where is it materialized?
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
>> point
>> > of
>> > > view.
>> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>> this
>> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>> skin
>> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> > Color
>> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>> > >
>> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> > XWiki
>> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>> >
>> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>> ones,
>> > making the situation even more complex…
>> >
>> > So for me we need to:
>> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>> what
>> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>> would
>> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>> either?
>> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>> attach
>> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>> adds
>> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>> >
>>
>> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme
>> defines
>> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
>> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
>> logo specified on the color theme.
>>
>
> The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't have
> logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.
>

We have a problem here with the themes that use darker colors and they
provide their own logo, with the correct contrast colors.


>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
>> it
>> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> > Using a color theme?"
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Caty
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks
>> > >> -Vincent
>> > >>
>> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>> > tests
>> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>> > issues
>> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
>> section
>> > in
>> > >>> Administration".
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
>> struggle
>> > to
>> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
>> is
>> > a
>> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
>> Themes
>> > >>> section of Administration
>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Let me know what you think,
>> > >>> Caty
>> > >>>
>> > >>> [1]
>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>> > >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Marius Dumitru Florea


> On 12 Feb 2018, at 10:49, Marius Dumitru Florea <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>
>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>>>>
>>>> Several questions:
>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> which
>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
>> &
>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>>>> where is it materialized?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
>> of
>>> view.
>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> Color
>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>>
>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> XWiki
>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>>
>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
>> making the situation even more complex…
>>
>> So for me we need to:
>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>>
>
> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme defines
> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
> logo specified on the color theme.

Ok that’s a good idea but it still leaves some questions open:

A) There will be plenty of places where to define a custom logo. We need to list all the use cases that exist and make sure there’s only 1 way for each use case as otherwise it’s confusing. It seems oferly complex to me ATM and this will make it even more complex.

B) We need to decide technically where a default logo is stored. Perm dir somewhere? In a wiki page as an attachment and if so which page? (what are the pros and cons of each).

For A) let me try to list use cases:

UC1: I want to define a default logo so that when I create a new wiki, this logo is used by default
UC2: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a given subwiki.
UC3: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a page + its children
UC4: I want to be able to define a custom logo for a single page

Answers:
UC1: Default logo in admin UI
UC2: Unfortunately there are 2 solutions: Set a logo in the wiki skin or set a logo in the current wiki color theme. Ideally we should pick one.
UC3: AFAIK it’s not possible. We can set a logo in the space skin or set a logo in the space color theme. But we can have a logo that will be used for children. In addition there are also 2 solutions same as UC2
UC4: I don’t think it works right now. From a tech POV I think you can add a XWikiSkins xobject to a page but then you’ll get the associated sheet displayed. I don’t know about Color Theme.

So questions to answer:

* How do we implement UC3?
* How do we implement UC4?
* Should we provide a single way for UC2 instead of 2?
* Do we have a use case for being able to set the logo in the skin that couldn’t be done in the color theme (or vice-versa)? Since the skin can redefine the full vm templates it will always be able to force a logo but maybe we shouldn’t make it a special feature of the skin and deprecate it/hide it. The rationale could be that we decide to move the logo feature to the CT.

For B) I think as an attachment would be better (you get the benefits of pages: history, rollback, simpler to change, etc).

Thanks
-Vincent

>
>
>>
>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> Using a color theme?"
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>> tests
>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>> issues
>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
>> in
>>>>> Administration".
>>>>>
>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
>> to
>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
>> a
>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
>>>>> section of Administration
>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what you think,
>>>>> Caty
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/

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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:08 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:49 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > > On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >> Hi Caty,
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>>> overridden
>>> > >> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
>>> level”.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Several questions:
>>> > >> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>>> Using a
>>> > >> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>> > >> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>>> > which
>>> > >> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>>> skins
>>> > &
>>> > >> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>>> > >> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
>>> i.e.
>>> > >> where is it materialized?
>>> > >>
>>> > >
>>> > > Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
>>> point
>>> > of
>>> > > view.
>>> > > In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>>> this
>>> > > control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>>> skin
>>> > > logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>>> > Color
>>> > > Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>> > >
>>> > > The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>>> > XWiki
>>> > > to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>>> >
>>> > Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a
>>> vote)
>>> > since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>>> > changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>>> ones,
>>> > making the situation even more complex…
>>> >
>>> > So for me we need to:
>>> > 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>>> what
>>> > happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>>> would
>>> > use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>>> either?
>>> > 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin
>>> UI.
>>> > Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>>> attach
>>> > a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>>> adds
>>> > a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>>> >
>>>
>>> I would add that if this is the *default* logo and each color theme
>>> defines
>>> its own logo (like it happens right now) then changing the logo from this
>>> section will not have any effect as this logo will be overwritten by the
>>> logo specified on the color theme.
>>>
>>
>> The label says "Default Logo". Also the majority of ColorThemes don't
>> have logos provided, so they inherit the one from the Skin.
>>
>
> We have a problem here with the themes that use darker colors and they
> provide their own logo, with the correct contrast colors.
>

We could remove the custom themes logos, or remove support for some of the
themes.

Thanks,
Caty


>
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Caty
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What
>>> does it
>>> > mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>>> > Using a color theme?"
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > -Vincent
>>> >
>>> > > Thanks,
>>> > > Caty
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Thanks
>>> > >> -Vincent
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>>> [hidden email]>
>>> > >> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hi,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>>> > tests
>>> > >>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>>> > issues
>>> > >>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
>>> section
>>> > in
>>> > >>> Administration".
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
>>> struggle
>>> > to
>>> > >>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus
>>> there is
>>> > a
>>> > >>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
>>> Themes
>>> > >>> section of Administration
>>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>> > >> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Let me know what you think,
>>> > >>> Caty
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> [1]
>>> > >>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>>> > >> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
Hi Caty,


> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>
>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be overridden
>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>>>>
>>>> Several questions:
>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a
>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>> which
>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in skins
>> &
>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>>>> where is it materialized?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
>> of
>>> view.
>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using this
>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the skin
>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>> Color
>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>>
>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>> XWiki
>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>>
>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing ones,
>> making the situation even more complex…
>>
>> So for me we need to:
>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain what
>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user would
>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not either?
>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and attach
>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and adds
>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>>
>
> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically - I
> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.

See my previous reply about this.

So I now understand that your idea would be:

Default system logo (Admin UI)
  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
    |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
      |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
        |_ Space Color Theme logo

In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default xwiki logo.

However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?

See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add new use cases if you see some that I have missed.

Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.

Thanks
-Vincent

>
>
>>
>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does it
>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>> Using a color theme?"
>>
>
> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
> can rephrase it.
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>> tests
>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>> issues
>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo section
>> in
>>>>> Administration".
>>>>>
>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
>> to
>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there is
>> a
>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the Themes
>>>>> section of Administration
>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what you think,
>>>>> Caty
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/

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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Caty,
>
>
> > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Caty,
> >>>>
> >>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> overridden
> >>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
> >>>>
> >>>> Several questions:
> >>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> Using a
> >>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> >> which
> >>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> skins
> >> &
> >>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
> >>>> where is it materialized?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
> >> of
> >>> view.
> >>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> this
> >>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> skin
> >>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> >> Color
> >>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >>>
> >>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> >> XWiki
> >>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> >>
> >> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
> >> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> >> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> ones,
> >> making the situation even more complex…
> >>
> >> So for me we need to:
> >> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
> what
> >> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> would
> >> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> either?
> >> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
> >> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> attach
> >> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> adds
> >> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> >>
> >
> > It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
> > attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically -
> I
> > guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> > Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> > inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
>
> See my previous reply about this.
>
> So I now understand that your idea would be:
>
> Default system logo (Admin UI)
>   |_ Skin logo (Skin)
>     |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
>       |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
>         |_ Space Color Theme logo
>
> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo
> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and
> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the
> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise,
> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default
> xwiki logo.
>
> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s
> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
>

Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and see
which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have different
Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the logo
for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once. Again,
nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, not in
every other color theme that exists out there.


>
> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add new
> use cases if you see some that I have missed.
>
> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
> it
> >> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> >> Using a color theme?"
> >>
> >
> > The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
> > with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
> > can rephrase it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>> -Vincent
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> >> tests
> >>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> >> issues
> >>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> section
> >> in
> >>>>> Administration".
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
> >> to
> >>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> is
> >> a
> >>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> Themes
> >>>>> section of Administration
> >>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Let me know what you think,
> >>>>> Caty
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1]
> >>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>
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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

vmassol
Administrator
Hi all,

After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and algorithm for selecting which logo to use:
http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1

Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages support (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere in the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).

Let us know what you think.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Caty,
>>
>>
>>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Caty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
>> overridden
>>>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page level”.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Several questions:
>>>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
>> Using a
>>>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
>>>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
>>>> which
>>>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
>> skins
>>>> &
>>>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
>>>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI, i.e.
>>>>>> where is it materialized?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development point
>>>> of
>>>>> view.
>>>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
>> this
>>>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
>> skin
>>>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
>>>> Color
>>>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
>>>>>
>>>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
>>>> XWiki
>>>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a vote)
>>>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
>>>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
>> ones,
>>>> making the situation even more complex…
>>>>
>>>> So for me we need to:
>>>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
>> what
>>>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
>> would
>>>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
>> either?
>>>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin UI.
>>>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
>> attach
>>>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
>> adds
>>>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add an
>>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically -
>> I
>>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
>>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
>>> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
>>
>> See my previous reply about this.
>>
>> So I now understand that your idea would be:
>>
>> Default system logo (Admin UI)
>>  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
>>    |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
>>      |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
>>        |_ Space Color Theme logo
>>
>> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a logo
>> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined and
>> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
>> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the
>> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it, otherwise,
>> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default
>> xwiki logo.
>>
>> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin. What’s
>> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
>>
>
> Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and see
> which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have different
> Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
> If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the logo
> for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once. Again,
> nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, not in
> every other color theme that exists out there.
>
>
>>
>> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add new
>> use cases if you see some that I have missed.
>>
>> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What does
>> it
>>>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
>>>> Using a color theme?"
>>>>
>>>
>>> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different Skin/CT
>>> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing, we
>>> can rephrase it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Caty
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Caty
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
>> [hidden email]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
>>>> tests
>>>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
>>>> issues
>>>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
>> section
>>>> in
>>>>>>> Administration".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still struggle
>>>> to
>>>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
>> is
>>>> a
>>>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
>> Themes
>>>>>>> section of Administration
>>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
>>>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let me know what you think,
>>>>>>> Caty
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
>>>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/

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Re: [Usability] Create a dedicated Logo section in Administration

Marius Dumitru Florea
I don't get it. I thought the usability problem was that it's not
straightforward
to *change* the logo. How is the proposed solution helping the user change
the logo when the color theme he selected specifies a logo? The user still
needs to go to the color theme to change the logo. Or to the skin, or to
the page preferences, etc. The user still needs to know where all these
places where the logo can be defined are and check each of them to make
sure the logo he sets is not overwritten.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> After talking to Caty we’ve defined the following Use Cases and algorithm
> for selecting which logo to use:
> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1
>
> Note 1: In the near future we also need to implement Nested Pages support
> (i.e. inherit WebPreferences).
> Note 2: We need to decide where to store the user-defined system-wide
> default logo. I’m proposing to define a wiki page for that, somewhere in
> the XWiki space. One idea could be to have a XWiki.BaseSkin page on the
> main wiki to hold base skin overrides (from the FS).
>
> Let us know what you think.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> > On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:30, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Caty,
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 12 Feb 2018, at 11:02, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:42 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 15:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> [hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 4:29 PM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Caty,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I see in the screenshot that it says “The default logo can be
> >> overridden
> >>>>>> (typo in your text btw ;)) by Color Themes or at wiki or page
> level”.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Several questions:
> >>>>>> * What does it mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that?
> >> Using a
> >>>>>> custom skin? Using a color theme?
> >>>>>> * Does it mean this is adding yet another way of defining the logo,
> >>>> which
> >>>>>> means that we would the ability to set it in the new admin UI, in
> >> skins
> >>>> &
> >>>>>> in color themes? Isn’t that too much?
> >>>>>> * What does it mean in practice when you set it in the admin UI,
> i.e.
> >>>>>> where is it materialized?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well these are the questions we need to answer from a development
> point
> >>>> of
> >>>>> view.
> >>>>> In theory it would be nice to be able to change the Skin logo using
> >> this
> >>>>> control. Somehow create a shortcut between this default logo and the
> >> skin
> >>>>> logo, or change the base skin logo from the filesystem. This way the
> >>>> Color
> >>>>> Themes will display the logo. Other ideas are welcomed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The description is technical I know, still there are so many ways in
> >>>> XWiki
> >>>>> to change to logo and override it, that a warning is welcomed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now, I disagree with this proposal (I’d vote -1 if it were a
> vote)
> >>>> since it doesn’t currently address what happens to the other ways of
> >>>> changing the logo and it adds yet another way on top of the existing
> >> ones,
> >>>> making the situation even more complex…
> >>>>
> >>>> So for me we need to:
> >>>> 1) Rationalize the change of logo better in the proposal and explain
> >> what
> >>>> happens to the other places and explain in the proposal why the user
> >> would
> >>>> use one or the other of the ways. Do some ways get deprecated or not
> >> either?
> >>>> 2) Define what it means to change the logo in the proposed new Admin
> UI.
> >>>> Does it create a new skin? Does it modifies the DefaultSkin page and
> >> attach
> >>>> a logo to it? Does it modifies the currently selected Color Theme and
> >> adds
> >>>> a logo to it? Does it do something else?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It should change the filesystem logo.png/svg from the base skin OR add
> an
> >>> attachment to the DefaultSkin' (which version is more easy technically
> -
> >> I
> >>> guess the DefaultSkin attachment).
> >>> Being as the default logo for the DefaultSkin, this means it can be
> >>> inherited / overridden by the Color Themes.
> >>
> >> See my previous reply about this.
> >>
> >> So I now understand that your idea would be:
> >>
> >> Default system logo (Admin UI)
> >>  |_ Skin logo (Skin)
> >>    |_ Color Theme logo (CT) for the wiki
> >>      |_ Space Skin logo (Skin)
> >>        |_ Space Color Theme logo
> >>
> >> In words: if the current space has a CT defined and if that CT has a
> logo
> >> defined then use it, otherwise, if the current space has a skin defined
> and
> >> that skin has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the current wiki has a
> >> color theme defined and if it has a logo then use it, otherwise, if the
> >> current wiki has a skin defined and it has a logo then use it,
> otherwise,
> >> if the default system logo is defined use it, otherwise, use a default
> >> xwiki logo.
> >>
> >> However I don’t see why a Color Theme would inherit from the skin.
> What’s
> >> the rationale? What additional use cases does it provide?
> >>
> >
> > Well the use case is that I want to experiment with the colors and see
> > which one I like as the default colors. Also maybe I want to have
> different
> > Color Themes on some wikis / spaces.
> > If the logos are inherited it's fine, I am not forced to attach the logo
> > for every other ColorTheme available. I just the default logo once.
> Again,
> > nice if I want to change the logo, I just change it in one place, not in
> > every other color theme that exists out there.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> See the list of use cases I started in the previous reply. Please add
> new
> >> use cases if you see some that I have missed.
> >>
> >> Note: The other issue with the above is that we’re missing nested pages.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I also need some answers to my questions asked above such as "What
> does
> >> it
> >>>> mean “at wiki or page level”? How do you do that? Using a custom skin?
> >>>> Using a color theme?"
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> The wiki/page level mention was because you can have a different
> Skin/CT
> >>> with a different logo for that level. If you think that is confusing,
> we
> >>> can rephrase it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Caty
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>> -Vincent
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>> Caty
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>> -Vincent
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 9 Feb 2018, at 14:34, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As some of you know, in January we had another session of usability
> >>>> tests
> >>>>>>> performed. As a result of those tests, I have prioritized [1] some
> >>>> issues
> >>>>>>> that we might want to improve in our next 10.x+ Roadmaps.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> One of the entries from that list is: "Create a dedicated Logo
> >> section
> >>>> in
> >>>>>>> Administration".
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Although we made some improvements in this area, users still
> struggle
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>> find the Logo changing area (takes more than 3 minutes). Plus there
> >> is
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>> lot of confusion between the Skin and ColorThemes overriding.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is a proposal to explicitly have a Logo section inside the
> >> Themes
> >>>>>>> section of Administration
> >>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/
> >>>>>> IdeaChangeLogo#HSolution1-1
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Let me know what you think,
> >>>>>>> Caty
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> >>>>>>> http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/Usability/
> >>>>>> Tasks5/Prioritization/
>
>