[VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

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[VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Andreea Popescu
Hello all,

Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.

The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:

- Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11.
- according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users.
It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.

Here’s my +1.

Andreea
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Andrea/all,

On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Hello all,
>  
> Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
> to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.

FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk 

> The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>  
> - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
> users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11.
> - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
> from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users.
> It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
> and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>  
> Here’s my +1.

On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.

While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.

Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.

So there are 2 questions in here:
- Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
- Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.

Thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Denis Gervalle-2
Hi Vincent and all,


On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hi Andrea/all,
>
> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>
> FTR the thread in question is at
> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>
> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> >
> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
> IE11.
> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
> users.
> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> >
> > Here’s my +1.
>
> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>

We see here that Marius have done the most for our UI, and he know how
costly it is to support different browser. I have my own experience in that
field with another product, so I really understand your point Marius.


> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
> problems.
>

I fully agree.


>
> Looking at the graph at
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
> it’s manageable.
>

However, this is not so black and white this should be part of the
discussion. While we may increase our luck of supporting many browser by
simply using an appropriate javascript and CSS framework (Prototype and now
JQuery, Bootstrap), testing and ensuring that a lot of browser version is
fully compatible could be a tremendous task that I sure we probably do not
fully achieve now.

IMO, we should ensure the most essential features of XWiki degrade nicely
in any browser by having a not too convoluted UI for them. Aside of it, we
should be able to benefit of the latest HTML5 improvement to provide really
appealing interface, and supporting only the latest browser is best for
allowing that. To achieve that goal, IMO we should declare that we only
support the latest browser, and that essential feature are supported on any
browser in degraded form. We should carefully test latest browser, and only
test essential features on a chosen subset of old browser (the most
popular, like IE8).

If you ask, what are the essential feature, I would reply by a very clear
example, to edit a document, having a fully WYSIWYG editor is not
essential. If you want it really and you decide that it is worth the
effort, you may upgrade your browser. Of course, we already have the actual
WYSIWYG editor almost working properly, we should not completely break it
now. But we may clearly state and accept that it have some limits, and put
effort on new features instead of trying to fix old features in IE8 for
example, event if this limit the IE8 compatibility of the editor (if it is
still basically usable of course). Overtime, we may accept more issue with
IE8 and a such non essential feature, when the market share continue to
drop.

If have the now the ability to sustain a better effort in browser support,
the browser I would like to see better supported are the mobile ones. We
have not put enough effort on the mobility aspect, and we should not
consider Safari, Chrome or Firefox as single browsers, their mobile counter
part also require some attention.


> So there are 2 questions in here:
> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>

+1 as well


> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
> marketshare approach.
>

+1 to only support essentiel feature on any browser, testing the one or two
that have the highest marketshare for confirmation.

Thanks,


>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Denis Gervalle
SOFTEC sa - CEO
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Marius Dumitru Florea
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Denis Gervalle <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Vincent and all,
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>
>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>
>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> >
>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>> IE11.
>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>> users.
>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> >
>> > Here’s my +1.
>>
>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>
>
> We see here that Marius have done the most for our UI, and he know how
> costly it is to support different browser. I have my own experience in that
> field with another product, so I really understand your point Marius.
>
>
>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>> problems.
>>
>
> I fully agree.
>
>
>>
>> Looking at the graph at
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>> it’s manageable.
>>
>
> However, this is not so black and white this should be part of the
> discussion. While we may increase our luck of supporting many browser by
> simply using an appropriate javascript and CSS framework (Prototype and now
> JQuery, Bootstrap), testing and ensuring that a lot of browser version is
> fully compatible could be a tremendous task that I sure we probably do not
> fully achieve now.
>
> IMO, we should ensure the most essential features of XWiki degrade nicely
> in any browser by having a not too convoluted UI for them. Aside of it, we
> should be able to benefit of the latest HTML5 improvement to provide really
> appealing interface, and supporting only the latest browser is best for
> allowing that. To achieve that goal, IMO we should declare that we only
> support the latest browser, and that essential feature are supported on any
> browser in degraded form. We should carefully test latest browser, and only
> test essential features on a chosen subset of old browser (the most
> popular, like IE8).
>
> If you ask, what are the essential feature, I would reply by a very clear
> example, to edit a document, having a fully WYSIWYG editor is not
> essential. If you want it really and you decide that it is worth the
> effort, you may upgrade your browser. Of course, we already have the actual
> WYSIWYG editor almost working properly, we should not completely break it
> now. But we may clearly state and accept that it have some limits, and put
> effort on new features instead of trying to fix old features in IE8 for
> example, event if this limit the IE8 compatibility of the editor (if it is
> still basically usable of course). Overtime, we may accept more issue with
> IE8 and a such non essential feature, when the market share continue to
> drop.
>
> If have the now the ability to sustain a better effort in browser support,
> the browser I would like to see better supported are the mobile ones. We
> have not put enough effort on the mobility aspect, and we should not
> consider Safari, Chrome or Firefox as single browsers, their mobile counter
> part also require some attention.
>
>
>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>
>

> +1 as well

+1

>
>
>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>> marketshare approach.
>>
>

> +1 to only support essentiel feature on any browser, testing the one or two
> that have the highest marketshare for confirmation.

+1 for Denis' suggestion to support only basic features in older IE
versions. Note that in practice this is what we're doing since we
don't hurry to fix issues with IE8 that are not critical, i.e. that
don't affect important features.

Thanks,
Marius

>
> Thanks,
>
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Denis Gervalle
> SOFTEC sa - CEO
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!

I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.

Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php

However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
- IE8/9/10/11
- FF latest
- Chrome latest
- Safari latest

It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?

So far we have the following votes:
- Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
- Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
- Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10

Thanks
-Vincent


On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> Hi Andrea/all,
>  
> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>  
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.  
>  
> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk 
>  
> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> >
> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11.
> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users.
> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> >
> > Here’s my +1.  
>  
> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.  
>  
> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.  
>  
> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.  
>  
> So there are 2 questions in here:  
> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
>  
> Thanks  
> -Vincent
>  
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.

See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx.

IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
>
> I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
>
> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data:
> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>
> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
> - IE8/9/10/11
> - FF latest
> - Chrome latest
> - Safari latest
>
> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>
> So far we have the following votes:
> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>
>> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>
>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> >
>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11.
>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users.
>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> >
>> > Here’s my +1.
>>
>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>
>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
>>
>> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
>>
>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11 only.

Remove the "not" of course.

>
> See http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx.
>
> IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers haven’t voted yet!
>>
>> I’ve updated http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with recent market share.
>>
>> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show similar data:
>> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>
>> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>> - IE8/9/10/11
>> - FF latest
>> - Chrome latest
>> - Safari latest
>>
>> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>>
>> So far we have the following votes:
>> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>>
>>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello all,
>>> >
>>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to propose
>>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>>
>>> FTR the thread in question is at http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>>
>>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>>> >
>>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used by
>>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and IE11.
>>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by Version)
>>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61% users.
>>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 - 20.85%
>>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>>> >
>>> > Here’s my +1.
>>>
>>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>>
>>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without problems.
>>>
>>> Looking at the graph at http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70% of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or it’s manageable.
>>>
>>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the marketshare approach.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
+1 for IE9/10/11
+0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)


2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>:

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
> only.
>
> Remove the "not" of course.
>
> >
> > See
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> .
> >
> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
> haven’t voted yet!
> >>
> >> I’ve updated
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
> recent market share.
> >>
> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
> similar data:
> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >>
> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> - FF latest
> >> - Chrome latest
> >> - Safari latest
> >>
> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
> >>
> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >>>
> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Hello all,
> >>> >
> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
> propose
> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >>>
> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >>>
> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> >>> >
> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
> by
> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
> IE11.
> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
> Version)
> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
> users.
> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
> 20.85%
> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> >>> >
> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >>>
> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
> >>>
> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
> problems.
> >>>
> >>> Looking at the graph at
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
> it’s manageable.
> >>>
> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
> marketshare approach.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
IMO we should modify
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
not ?).

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1 for IE9/10/11
> +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>
>
> 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>> only.
>>
>> Remove the "not" of course.
>>
>> >
>> > See
>> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> .
>> >
>> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>> haven’t voted yet!
>> >>
>> >> I’ve updated
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>> recent market share.
>> >>
>> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>> similar data:
>> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> >>
>> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> >> - FF latest
>> >> - Chrome latest
>> >> - Safari latest
>> >>
>> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>> >>
>> >> So far we have the following votes:
>> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >> -Vincent
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> >>>
>> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Hello all,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>> propose
>> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> >>>
>> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> >>>
>> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>> by
>> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>> IE11.
>> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>> Version)
>> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>> users.
>> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>> 20.85%
>> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> >>>
>> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>> >>>
>> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>> problems.
>> >>>
>> >>> Looking at the graph at
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>> it’s manageable.
>> >>>
>> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>> marketshare approach.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> -Vincent
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> devs mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thomas Mortagne
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
Thomas Mortagne
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[VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.

Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).

So the new vote is:
* Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).

Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).

Here’s my +1

Thanks
-Vincent


On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> +1 for IE9/10/11
> +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>  
>  
> 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>  
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > wrote:
> > > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
> > only.
> >
> > Remove the "not" of course.
> >
> > >
> > > See
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> > .
> > >
> > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]  
> > wrote:
> > >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
> > haven’t voted yet!
> > >>
> > >> I’ve updated
> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
> > recent market share.
> > >>
> > >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
> > similar data:
> > >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> > >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> > >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> > >>
> > >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
> > we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
> > >> - IE8/9/10/11
> > >> - FF latest
> > >> - Chrome latest
> > >> - Safari latest
> > >>
> > >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
> > high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
> > >>
> > >> So far we have the following votes:
> > >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> > >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> > >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> -Vincent
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> > >>>
> > >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > Hello all,
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
> > propose
> > >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> > >>>
> > >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> > http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> > >>>
> > >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
> > by
> > >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
> > IE11.
> > >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
> > Version)
> > >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
> > users.
> > >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
> > 20.85%
> > >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Here’s my +1.
> > >>>
> > >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
> > latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
> > for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
> > community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
> > XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
> > >>>
> > >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
> > support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
> > feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
> > problems.
> > >>>
> > >>> Looking at the graph at
> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> > we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
> > of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
> > IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
> > supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
> > supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
> > an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
> > IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
> > with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
> > it’s manageable.
> > >>>
> > >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> > >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> > >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
> > instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
> > marketshare approach.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks
> > >>> -Vincent
> > >>>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> devs mailing list
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Silvia Rusu
Hello,

+1 as well.

Thanks,
Silvia


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
>
> Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
>
> So the new vote is:
> * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
>
> Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
>
> Here’s my +1
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> +1 for IE9/10/11
>> +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>>
>>
>> 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>
>> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > wrote:
>> > > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>> > only.
>> >
>> > Remove the "not" of course.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > See
>> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> > .
>> > >
>> > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>> > >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>> > haven’t voted yet!
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ve updated
>> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>> > recent market share.
>> > >>
>> > >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>> > similar data:
>> > >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> > >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> > >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> > >>
>> > >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>> > we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>> > >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> > >> - FF latest
>> > >> - Chrome latest
>> > >> - Safari latest
>> > >>
>> > >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>> > high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>> > >>
>> > >> So far we have the following votes:
>> > >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks
>> > >> -Vincent
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> > Hello all,
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>> > propose
>> > >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> > http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> > >>>
>> > >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>> > by
>> > >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>> > IE11.
>> > >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>> > Version)
>> > >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>> > users.
>> > >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>> > 20.85%
>> > >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>> > latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>> > for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>> > community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>> > XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>> > support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>> > feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>> > problems.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Looking at the graph at
>> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> > we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>> > of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>> > IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>> > supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>> > supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>> > an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>> > IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>> > with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>> > it’s manageable.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> > >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> > >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>> > instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>> > marketshare approach.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks
>> > >>> -Vincent
>> > >>>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> devs mailing list
>> > >> [hidden email]
>> > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Thomas Mortagne
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thomas Mortagne
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
Silvia Rusu
Tester & Documentation Writer - XWiki
http://twitter.com/silviarusu
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
 



On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> IMO we should modify
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
> not ?).

I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.

And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.

Thanks
-Vincent

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> wrote:
> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
> >
> >
> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >
> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> wrote:
> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
> >> only.
> >>
> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > See
> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >> .
> >> >
> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]  
> >> wrote:
> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
> >> haven’t voted yet!
> >> >>
> >> >> I’ve updated
> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
> >> recent market share.
> >> >>
> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
> >> similar data:
> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >> >>
> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> >> - FF latest
> >> >> - Chrome latest
> >> >> - Safari latest
> >> >>
> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
> >> >>
> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> -Vincent
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > Hello all,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
> >> propose
> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
> >> by
> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
> >> IE11.
> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
> >> Version)
> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
> >> users.
> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
> >> 20.85%
> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
> >> problems.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
> >> it’s manageable.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
> >> marketshare approach.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks
> >> >>> -Vincent
> >> >>>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> devs mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>  
>  
>  
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> IMO we should modify
>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
>> not ?).
>
> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.

I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
since that's what we are talking about here.

>
> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>> wrote:
>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>> >
>> >
>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>> >> only.
>> >>
>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > See
>> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> >> .
>> >> >
>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I’ve updated
>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>> >> recent market share.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>> >> similar data:
>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> >> >>
>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> >> >> - FF latest
>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>> >> >> - Safari latest
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> >> -Vincent
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>> >> propose
>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>> >> by
>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>> >> IE11.
>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>> >> Version)
>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>> >> users.
>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>> >> 20.85%
>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>> >> problems.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>> >> it’s manageable.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>> >> marketshare approach.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks
>> >> >>> -Vincent
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> devs mailing list
>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> devs mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
Thomas Mortagne
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
In reply to this post by Silvia Rusu
+1 of course.


2014-09-04 16:45 GMT+02:00 Silvia Rusu <[hidden email]>:

> Hello,
>
> +1 as well.
>
> Thanks,
> Silvia
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 5:43 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
> agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal
> version we drop.
> >
> > Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
> that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
> >
> > So the new vote is:
> > * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
> latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
> >
> > Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
> separately).
> >
> > Here’s my +1
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >
> > On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau (
> [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> >> +1 for IE9/10/11
> >> +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support
> it!)
> >>
> >>
> >> 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >>
> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> IE9/10/11
> >> > only.
> >> >
> >> > Remove the "not" of course.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > See
> >> >
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >> > .
> >> > >
> >> > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
> >> > haven’t voted yet!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I’ve updated
> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> with
> >> > recent market share.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to
> show
> >> > similar data:
> >> > >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> > >> -
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> > >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >> > >>
> >> > >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of
> users
> >> > we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this
> includes:
> >> > >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> > >> - FF latest
> >> > >> - Chrome latest
> >> > >> - Safari latest
> >> > >>
> >> > >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is
> less
> >> > high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to
> IE11)?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> > >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Thanks
> >> > >> -Vincent
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
> >> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> [hidden email]
> >> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> > Hello all,
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like
> to
> >> > propose
> >> > >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >> > http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely
> used
> >> > by
> >> > >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to
> IE10 and
> >> > IE11.
> >> > >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
> >> > Version)
> >> > >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by
> 16.61%
> >> > users.
> >> > >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions
> (IE8 -
> >> > 20.85%
> >> > >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
> >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only
> the
> >> > latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing
> except
> >> > for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers
> and the
> >> > community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on
> top of
> >> > XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that
> we
> >> > support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people,
> because I
> >> > feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it
> without
> >> > problems.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Looking at the graph at
> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> if
> >> > we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover
> 70%
> >> > of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> strangely
> >> > IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> others… Not
> >> > supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> problems
> >> > supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if
> that’s
> >> > an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
> >> > IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try
> it
> >> > with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for
> us or
> >> > it’s manageable.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >> > >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >> > >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> browser or
> >> > instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
> >> > marketshare approach.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Thanks
> >> > >>> -Vincent
> >> > >>>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> devs mailing list
> >> > >> [hidden email]
> >> > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > devs mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>>> IMO we should modify
>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
>>> not ?).
>>
>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
>
> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> since that's what we are talking about here.
>
>>
>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>>> wrote:
>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>> >
>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>>> >> only.
>>> >>
>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > See
>>> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>>> >> .
>>> >> >
>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>>> >> recent market share.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>>> >> similar data:
>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>>> >> >> - FF latest
>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Thanks
>>> >> >> -Vincent
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>>> >> propose
>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>>> >> by
>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>>> >> IE11.
>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>>> >> Version)
>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>>> >> users.
>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>>> >> 20.85%
>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>>> >> problems.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>>> >> it’s manageable.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>>> >> marketshare approach.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Thanks
>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> devs mailing list
>>> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > devs mailing list
>>> > [hidden email]
>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne



--
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer

s/upgrade/apply/

> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>
>>>> IMO we should modify
>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
>>>> not ?).
>>>
>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
>>
>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>>
>>>
>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>>>> >> only.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > See
>>>> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>>>> >> .
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>>>> >> recent market share.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>>>> >> similar data:
>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>>>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Thanks
>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>>>> >> propose
>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>>>> >> by
>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>>>> >> IE11.
>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>>>> >> Version)
>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>>>> >> users.
>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>>>> >> 20.85%
>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>>>> >> >>> >
>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>>>> >> problems.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > --
>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> devs mailing list
>>>> >> [hidden email]
>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>> >>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > devs mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> devs mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne



--
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
+1

On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:43 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
>
> Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
>
> So the new vote is:
> * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
>
> Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
>
> Here’s my +1
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:34:48, Guillaume Louis-Marie Delhumeau ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> +1 for IE9/10/11
>> +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>>
>>
>> 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>
>> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > wrote:
>> > > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>> > only.
>> >
>> > Remove the "not" of course.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > See
>> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> > .
>> > >
>> > > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> > wrote:
>> > >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>> > haven’t voted yet!
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ve updated
>> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>> > recent market share.
>> > >>
>> > >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>> > similar data:
>> > >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> > >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> > >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> > >>
>> > >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>> > we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>> > >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> > >> - FF latest
>> > >> - Chrome latest
>> > >> - Safari latest
>> > >>
>> > >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>> > high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>> > >>
>> > >> So far we have the following votes:
>> > >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> > >>
>> > >> Thanks
>> > >> -Vincent
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> > Hello all,
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>> > propose
>> > >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> > http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> > >>>
>> > >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>> > by
>> > >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>> > IE11.
>> > >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>> > Version)
>> > >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>> > users.
>> > >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>> > 20.85%
>> > >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>> > latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>> > for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>> > community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>> > XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>> > support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>> > feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>> > problems.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Looking at the graph at
>> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> > we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>> > of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>> > IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>> > supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>> > supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>> > an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>> > IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>> > with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>> > it’s manageable.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> > >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> > >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>> > instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>> > marketshare approach.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks
>> > >>> -Vincent
>> > >>>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> devs mailing list
>> > >> [hidden email]
>> > >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Thomas Mortagne
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thomas Mortagne
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
>> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
>
> s/upgrade/apply/
>
>> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.

Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.

>>
>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> IMO we should modify
>>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
>>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
>>>>> not ?).
>>>>
>>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for older versions.
>>>
>>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
>>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not support it!)
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not IE9/10/11
>>>>> >> only.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > See
>>>>> >> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>>>>> >> .
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of committers
>>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
>>>>> >> recent market share.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem to show
>>>>> >> similar data:
>>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>>>>> >> >> - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80% of users
>>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this includes:
>>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10 is less
>>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded to IE11)?
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> Thanks
>>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] ([hidden email]
>>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu ([hidden email]
>>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d like to
>>>>> >> propose
>>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions are:
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still widely used
>>>>> >> by
>>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to IE10 and
>>>>> >> IE11.
>>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop Share by
>>>>> >> Version)
>>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11 by 16.61%
>>>>> >> users.
>>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions (IE8 -
>>>>> >> 20.85%
>>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still significant.
>>>>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support only the
>>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re doing except
>>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all browsers and the
>>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services on top of
>>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their customers.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like that we
>>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people, because I
>>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use it without
>>>>> >> problems.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>>>>> >> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would cover 70%
>>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that strangely
>>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the others… Not
>>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have problems
>>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6, if that’s
>>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and with
>>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we try it
>>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden for us or
>>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each browser or
>>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for the
>>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>>>>> >> >>>
>>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > --
>>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> devs mailing list
>>>>> >> [hidden email]
>>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>>> >>
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > devs mailing list
>>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> devs mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> devs mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Sergiu Dumitriu-3
In reply to this post by vmassol
On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal version we drop.
>
> Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
>
> So the new vote is:
> * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
>
> Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it separately).
>
> Here’s my +1
>

+1.

--
Sergiu Dumitriu
http://purl.org/net/sergiu
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Marius Dumitru Florea
+1

On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal
version we drop.
> >
> > Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
> >
> > So the new vote is:
> > * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
> >
> > Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
separately).

> >
> > Here’s my +1
> >
>
> +1.
>
> --
> Sergiu Dumitriu
> http://purl.org/net/sergiu
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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