[VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Andreea Popescu
+1




On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> +1
>
> On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
> agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal
> version we drop.
> > >
> > > Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
> that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
> > >
> > > So the new vote is:
> > > * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
> latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
> > >
> > > Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
> separately).
> > >
> > > Here’s my +1
> > >
> >
> > +1.
> >
> > --
> > Sergiu Dumitriu
> > http://purl.org/net/sergiu
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
Andreea Zenovia Popescu
QA Engineer @XWiki
[hidden email]
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11)

Manuel Smeria-2
+1

<http://www.xwiki.com/>
*Manuel Smeria*
*Quality Assurance & Support Engineer*


On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Andreea Popescu <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > +1
> >
> > On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
> > agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal
> > version we drop.
> > > >
> > > > Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
> > that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
> > > >
> > > > So the new vote is:
> > > > * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
> > latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
> > > >
> > > > Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
> > separately).
> > > >
> > > > Here’s my +1
> > > >
> > >
> > > +1.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sergiu Dumitriu
> > > http://purl.org/net/sergiu
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andreea Zenovia Popescu
> QA Engineer @XWiki
> [hidden email]
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] Support version range for IE (was Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11) (RESULTS)

vmassol
Administrator
VOTE result:
- Binding votes: 5 +1, no 0, no -1
- Non Binding: 3 +1, no 0, no -1

The VOTE is this passed and I’ve updated the page at:
http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy 

Thanks
-Vincent

On 5 Sep 2014 at 08:16:18, Manuel Smeria ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> +1
>  
>  
> *Manuel Smeria*
> *Quality Assurance & Support Engineer*
>  
>  
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:48 PM, Andreea Popescu  
> wrote:
>  
> > +1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Marius Dumitru Florea <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Sep 4, 2014 6:32 PM, "Sergiu Dumitriu" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 09/04/2014 10:43 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > > > ok after discussing with Thomas we agreed that it would be better to
> > > agree to support ranges of versions for IE and then decide which minimal
> > > version we drop.
> > > > >
> > > > > Right now officially we support IE8/9 which is stupid since it means
> > > that officially we don’t support the latest IE version (11).
> > > > >
> > > > > So the new vote is:
> > > > > * Support all IE versions from the older version we support to the
> > > latest version (i.e. IE8-11 as today).
> > > > >
> > > > > Then we can have a separate VOTE to drop IE8 support (I’ll send it
> > > separately).
> > > > >
> > > > > Here’s my +1
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > +1.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sergiu Dumitriu
> > > > http://purl.org/net/sergiu
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > devs mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andreea Zenovia Popescu
> > QA Engineer @XWiki
> > [hidden email]
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
devs mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Ecaterina Moraru (Valica)
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
My vote goes to:
+1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
-1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
+1 to support IE8 for Colibri

My rationale:
- Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
modern browsers.
- Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
third-party JS dependency.
- We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
mention other companies)
- IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
pick Colibri

Thanks,
Caty




On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> >
> > s/upgrade/apply/
> >
> >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>
> Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> IMO we should modify
> >>>>> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's simple
> >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft does
> >>>>> not ?).
> >>>>
> >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> older versions.
> >>>
> >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE even
> if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>> -Vincent
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> support it!)
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >>>>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> IE9/10/11
> >>>>> >> only.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > See
> >>>>> >>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >>>>> >> .
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> >>>>> >> wrote:
> >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> committers
> >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> >>>>> >>
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy with
> >>>>> >> recent market share.
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
> to show
> >>>>> >> similar data:
> >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >>>>> >> >> -
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
> of users
> >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS this
> includes:
> >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
> is less
> >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
> to IE11)?
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
> [hidden email]
> >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>
> >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> [hidden email]
> >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
> like to
> >>>>> >> propose
> >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> are:
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> widely used
> >>>>> >> by
> >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update to
> IE10 and
> >>>>> >> IE11.
> >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> Share by
> >>>>> >> Version)
> >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
> by 16.61%
> >>>>> >> users.
> >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older versions
> (IE8 -
> >>>>> >> 20.85%
> >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> significant.
> >>>>> >> >>> >
> >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
> only the
> >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> doing except
> >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> browsers and the
> >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
> on top of
> >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> customers.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
> that we
> >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of people,
> because I
> >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
> it without
> >>>>> >> problems.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> >>>>> >>
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
> cover 70%
> >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> strangely
> >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> others… Not
> >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> problems
> >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
> if that’s
> >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers and
> with
> >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that we
> try it
> >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a burden
> for us or
> >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> browser or
> >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
> the
> >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> >>>>> >> >>>
> >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
> >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> >
> >>>>> >> > --
> >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> --
> >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> >>>>> >> [hidden email]
> >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > devs mailing list
> >>>>> > [hidden email]
> >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> devs mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> devs mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Thomas Mortagne
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Eduard Moraru
+1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend".

Thanks,
Eduard

On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) <[hidden email]
> wrote:

> My vote goes to:
> +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
> -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
> +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
>
> My rationale:
> - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
> modern browsers.
> - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
> http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
> partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
> third-party JS dependency.
> - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
> die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
> mention other companies)
> - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
> means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
> it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
> pick Colibri
>
> Thanks,
> Caty
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[hidden email]
> >
> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> > >
> > > s/upgrade/apply/
> > >
> > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >
> > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> >
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
> [hidden email]
> > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> IMO we should modify
> > >>>>>
> http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
> simple
> > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
> does
> > >>>>> not ?).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> > older versions.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
> even
> > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks
> > >>>> -Vincent
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> > support it!)
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> > >>>>> >
> > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > >>>>> >> wrote:
> > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> > IE9/10/11
> > >>>>> >> only.
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> > See
> > >>>>> >>
> >
> http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> > >>>>> >> .
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> > >>>>> >> wrote:
> > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> > committers
> > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> > >>>>> >>
> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> with
> > >>>>> >> recent market share.
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
> > to show
> > >>>>> >> similar data:
> > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> > >>>>> >> >> -
> > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
> > of users
> > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
> this
> > includes:
> > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
> > is less
> > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
> > to IE11)?
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
> > [hidden email]
> > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>>>> >> >>
> > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> > [hidden email]
> > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
> > like to
> > >>>>> >> propose
> > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> > are:
> > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> > widely used
> > >>>>> >> by
> > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
> to
> > IE10 and
> > >>>>> >> IE11.
> > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> > Share by
> > >>>>> >> Version)
> > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
> > by 16.61%
> > >>>>> >> users.
> > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
> versions
> > (IE8 -
> > >>>>> >> 20.85%
> > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> > significant.
> > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
> > only the
> > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> > doing except
> > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> > browsers and the
> > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
> > on top of
> > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> > customers.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
> > that we
> > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
> people,
> > because I
> > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
> > it without
> > >>>>> >> problems.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> > >>>>> >>
> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
> > cover 70%
> > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> > strangely
> > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> > others… Not
> > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> > problems
> > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
> > if that’s
> > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
> and
> > with
> > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
> we
> > try it
> > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
> burden
> > for us or
> > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> > browser or
> > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
> > the
> > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> > >>>>> >> >>>
> > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
> > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> >
> > >>>>> >> > --
> > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> >> --
> > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
> > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >>>>> >>
> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> > devs mailing list
> > >>>>> > [hidden email]
> > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> devs mailing list
> > >>>>> [hidden email]
> > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>> devs mailing list
> > >>>> [hidden email]
> > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Thomas Mortagne
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Thomas Mortagne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thomas Mortagne
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator

On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.

-1 because:

A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using... 
C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP

More elaborate answer for point B):

You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...

FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
- Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
- Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
- Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
- Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.

So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).

Thanks
-Vincent

> Thanks,
> Eduard
>  
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
>  
> > My vote goes to:
> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
> >
> > My rationale:
> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
> > modern browsers.
> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
> > third-party JS dependency.
> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
> > mention other companies)
> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
> > pick Colibri
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Caty
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> > > >
> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
> > > >
> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> > >
> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
> > [hidden email]
> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
> > > >>>>>
> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
> > simple
> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
> > does
> > > >>>>> not ?).
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> > > older versions.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
> > even
> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks
> > > >>>> -Vincent
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> > > support it!)
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> > > >>>>> >
> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> > > IE9/10/11
> > > >>>>> >> only.
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> > See
> > > >>>>> >>
> > >
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> > > >>>>> >> .
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> > > committers
> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> > with
> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
> > > to show
> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> > > >>>>> >> >> -
> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
> > > of users
> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
> > this
> > > includes:
> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
> > > is less
> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
> > > to IE11)?
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
> > > [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>>>> >> >>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> > > [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
> > > like to
> > > >>>>> >> propose
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> > > are:
> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> > > widely used
> > > >>>>> >> by
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
> > to
> > > IE10 and
> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> > > Share by
> > > >>>>> >> Version)
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
> > > by 16.61%
> > > >>>>> >> users.
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
> > versions
> > > (IE8 -
> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> > > significant.
> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
> > > only the
> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> > > doing except
> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> > > browsers and the
> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
> > > on top of
> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> > > customers.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
> > > that we
> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
> > people,
> > > because I
> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
> > > it without
> > > >>>>> >> problems.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
> > > cover 70%
> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> > > strangely
> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> > > others… Not
> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> > > problems
> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
> > > if that’s
> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
> > and
> > > with
> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
> > we
> > > try it
> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
> > burden
> > > for us or
> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> > > browser or
> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
> > > the
> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> >
> > > >>>>> >> > --
> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> >> --
> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >>>>> >>
> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>>> devs mailing list
> > > >>>> [hidden email]
> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Thomas Mortagne
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > devs mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
>> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
>
> -1 because:
>
> A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
> C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)

You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system". So
based on what's on
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.

So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.

> D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
>
> More elaborate answer for point B):
>
> You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
>
> FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
> - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
> - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
> - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
> - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
>
> So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> Thanks,
>> Eduard
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
>>
>> > My vote goes to:
>> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
>> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
>> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
>> >
>> > My rationale:
>> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
>> > modern browsers.
>> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
>> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
>> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
>> > third-party JS dependency.
>> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
>> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
>> > mention other companies)
>> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
>> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
>> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
>> > pick Colibri
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Caty
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
>> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
>> > > >
>> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
>> > > >
>> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
>> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>> > >
>> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>> > >
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
>> > [hidden email]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
>> > [hidden email]
>> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
>> > > >>>>>
>> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
>> > simple
>> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
>> > does
>> > > >>>>> not ?).
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
>> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
>> > > older versions.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
>> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
>> > even
>> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Thanks
>> > > >>>> -Vincent
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>> > > >>>>> wrote:
>> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
>> > > support it!)
>> > > >>>>> >
>> > > >>>>> >
>> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>> > > >>>>> >
>> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
>> > > IE9/10/11
>> > > >>>>> >> only.
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> > See
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > >
>> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> > > >>>>> >> .
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
>> > > committers
>> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>> > with
>> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
>> > > to show
>> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> > > >>>>> >> >> -
>> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
>> > > of users
>> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
>> > this
>> > > includes:
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
>> > > is less
>> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
>> > > to IE11)?
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
>> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
>> > > like to
>> > > >>>>> >> propose
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
>> > > are:
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
>> > > widely used
>> > > >>>>> >> by
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
>> > to
>> > > IE10 and
>> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
>> > > Share by
>> > > >>>>> >> Version)
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
>> > > by 16.61%
>> > > >>>>> >> users.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
>> > versions
>> > > (IE8 -
>> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
>> > > significant.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
>> > > only the
>> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
>> > > doing except
>> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
>> > > browsers and the
>> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
>> > > on top of
>> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
>> > > customers.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
>> > > that we
>> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
>> > people,
>> > > because I
>> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
>> > > it without
>> > > >>>>> >> problems.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
>> > > cover 70%
>> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
>> > > strangely
>> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
>> > > others… Not
>> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
>> > > problems
>> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
>> > > if that’s
>> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
>> > and
>> > > with
>> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
>> > we
>> > > try it
>> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
>> > burden
>> > > for us or
>> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
>> > > browser or
>> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
>> > > the
>> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> >
>> > > >>>>> >> > --
>> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> >> --
>> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
>> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > >>>>> >>
>> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
>> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> --
>> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
>> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
>> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> > > >>>> devs mailing list
>> > > >>>> [hidden email]
>> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> --
>> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> --
>> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Thomas Mortagne
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Thomas Mortagne
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > devs mailing list
>> > > [hidden email]
>> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
 



On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> >
> > -1 because:
> >
> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
>  
> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.

I was replying to Edy’s comment:
"If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."

I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
- not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
- only supporting the latest IE version

> So
> based on what's on
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>  
> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.

And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.

I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.

Thanks
-Vincent

> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
> >
> > More elaborate answer for point B):
> >
> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
> >
> > FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
> >
> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >> Eduard
> >>
> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
> >>
> >> > My vote goes to:
> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
> >> >
> >> > My rationale:
> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
> >> > modern browsers.
> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
> >> > third-party JS dependency.
> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
> >> > mention other companies)
> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
> >> > pick Colibri
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Caty
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> >> > > >
> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >> > >
> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> >> > >
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >> wrote:
> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
> >> > [hidden email]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
> >> > simple
> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
> >> > does
> >> > > >>>>> not ?).
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> >> > > older versions.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
> >> > even
> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>> Thanks
> >> > > >>>> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>
> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> >> > > >>>>> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> >> > > support it!)
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> >> > > IE9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> only.
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > See
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > >
> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >> > > >>>>> >> .
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> >> > > committers
> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> > with
> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
> >> > > to show
> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -
> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
> >> > > of users
> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
> >> > this
> >> > > includes:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
> >> > > is less
> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
> >> > > to IE11)?
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
> >> > > like to
> >> > > >>>>> >> propose
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> >> > > are:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> >> > > widely used
> >> > > >>>>> >> by
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
> >> > to
> >> > > IE10 and
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> >> > > Share by
> >> > > >>>>> >> Version)
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
> >> > > by 16.61%
> >> > > >>>>> >> users.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
> >> > versions
> >> > > (IE8 -
> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> >> > > significant.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
> >> > > only the
> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> >> > > doing except
> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> >> > > browsers and the
> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
> >> > > on top of
> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> >> > > customers.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
> >> > > that we
> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
> >> > people,
> >> > > because I
> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
> >> > > it without
> >> > > >>>>> >> problems.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
> >> > > cover 70%
> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> >> > > strangely
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> >> > > others… Not
> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> >> > > problems
> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
> >> > > if that’s
> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
> >> > and
> >> > > with
> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
> >> > we
> >> > > try it
> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
> >> > burden
> >> > > for us or
> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> >> > > browser or
> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
> >> > > the
> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> > > >>>>> >> > --
> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> >> --
> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>>
> >> > > >>>>> --
> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list
> >> > > >>>> [hidden email]
> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>>
> >> > > >>> --
> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> --
> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > devs mailing list
> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > devs mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>> >
>> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >
>> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
>> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
>> >
>> > -1 because:
>> >
>> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
>> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
>> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
>>
>> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
>> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
>
> I was replying to Edy’s comment:
> "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
>
> I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
> - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
> - only supporting the latest IE version
>
>> So
>> based on what's on
>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>>
>> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
>
> And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.

Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.

>
> I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
>> >
>> > More elaborate answer for point B):
>> >
>> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
>> >
>> > FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
>> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
>> >
>> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Eduard
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > My vote goes to:
>> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
>> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
>> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
>> >> >
>> >> > My rationale:
>> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
>> >> > modern browsers.
>> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
>> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
>> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
>> >> > third-party JS dependency.
>> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
>> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
>> >> > mention other companies)
>> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
>> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
>> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
>> >> > pick Colibri
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > Caty
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > > wrote:
>> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
>> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
>> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >> wrote:
>> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
>> >> > [hidden email]>
>> >> > > wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
>> >> > simple
>> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
>> >> > does
>> >> > > >>>>> not ?).
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
>> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
>> >> > > older versions.
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
>> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
>> >> > even
>> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>> Thanks
>> >> > > >>>> -Vincent
>> >> > > >>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>> >> > > >>>>> wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
>> >> > > support it!)
>> >> > > >>>>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>> >> > > >>>>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
>> >> > > IE9/10/11
>> >> > > >>>>> >> only.
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>> >> > > >>>>> >> .
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
>> >> > > committers
>> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>> >> > with
>> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
>> >> > > to show
>> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -
>> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
>> >> > > of users
>> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
>> >> > this
>> >> > > includes:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
>> >> > > is less
>> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
>> >> > > to IE11)?
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
>> >> > > [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
>> >> > > [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
>> >> > > like to
>> >> > > >>>>> >> propose
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
>> >> > > are:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
>> >> > > widely used
>> >> > > >>>>> >> by
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
>> >> > to
>> >> > > IE10 and
>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
>> >> > > Share by
>> >> > > >>>>> >> Version)
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
>> >> > > by 16.61%
>> >> > > >>>>> >> users.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
>> >> > versions
>> >> > > (IE8 -
>> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
>> >> > > significant.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
>> >> > > only the
>> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
>> >> > > doing except
>> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
>> >> > > browsers and the
>> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
>> >> > > on top of
>> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
>> >> > > customers.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
>> >> > > that we
>> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
>> >> > people,
>> >> > > because I
>> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
>> >> > > it without
>> >> > > >>>>> >> problems.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
>> >> > > cover 70%
>> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
>> >> > > strangely
>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
>> >> > > others… Not
>> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
>> >> > > problems
>> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
>> >> > > if that’s
>> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
>> >> > and
>> >> > > with
>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
>> >> > we
>> >> > > try it
>> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
>> >> > burden
>> >> > > for us or
>> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
>> >> > > browser or
>> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
>> >> > > the
>> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > --
>> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> >> --
>> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
>> >> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
>> >> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>>
>> >> > > >>>>> --
>> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
>> >> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list
>> >> > > >>>> [hidden email]
>> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>>
>> >> > > >>> --
>> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >>
>> >> > > >> --
>> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > --
>> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > devs mailing list
>> >> > > [hidden email]
>> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> > >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > devs mailing list
>> >> > [hidden email]
>> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> >> >
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> devs mailing list
>> >> [hidden email]
>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > devs mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thomas Mortagne
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs



--
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
>>> >
>>> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
>>> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
>>> >
>>> > -1 because:
>>> >
>>> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
>>> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
>>> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
>>>
>>> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
>>> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
>>
>> I was replying to Edy’s comment:
>> "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
>>
>> I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
>> - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
>> - only supporting the latest IE version
>>
>>> So
>>> based on what's on
>>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>>>
>>> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
>>
>> And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
>
> Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
> about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
> systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.

And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the
application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.

>
>>
>> I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
>>> >
>>> > More elaborate answer for point B):
>>> >
>>> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
>>> >
>>> > FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
>>> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
>>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
>>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
>>> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
>>> >
>>> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > -Vincent
>>> >
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Eduard
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > My vote goes to:
>>> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
>>> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
>>> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
>>> >> >
>>> >> > My rationale:
>>> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
>>> >> > modern browsers.
>>> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
>>> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
>>> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
>>> >> > third-party JS dependency.
>>> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
>>> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
>>> >> > mention other companies)
>>> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
>>> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
>>> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
>>> >> > pick Colibri
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks,
>>> >> > Caty
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > wrote:
>>> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > > wrote:
>>> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
>>> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
>>> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > >>
>>> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >> wrote:
>>> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
>>> >> > [hidden email]>
>>> >> > > wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
>>> >> > [hidden email]
>>> >> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
>>> >> > > >>>>>
>>> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
>>> >> > simple
>>> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
>>> >> > does
>>> >> > > >>>>> not ?).
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
>>> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
>>> >> > > older versions.
>>> >> > > >>>
>>> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
>>> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
>>> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
>>> >> > > >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
>>> >> > even
>>> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>> Thanks
>>> >> > > >>>> -Vincent
>>> >> > > >>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
>>> >> > > >>>>> wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
>>> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
>>> >> > > support it!)
>>> >> > > >>>>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
>>> >> > > >>>>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
>>> >> > > IE9/10/11
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> only.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > See
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> .
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
>>> >> > > committers
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
>>> >> > with
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
>>> >> > > to show
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -
>>> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
>>> >> > > of users
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
>>> >> > this
>>> >> > > includes:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
>>> >> > > is less
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
>>> >> > > to IE11)?
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
>>> >> > > [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
>>> >> > > [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
>>> >> > > like to
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> propose
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
>>> >> > > are:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
>>> >> > > widely used
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> by
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
>>> >> > to
>>> >> > > IE10 and
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
>>> >> > > Share by
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> Version)
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
>>> >> > > by 16.61%
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> users.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
>>> >> > versions
>>> >> > > (IE8 -
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
>>> >> > > significant.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
>>> >> > > only the
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
>>> >> > > doing except
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
>>> >> > > browsers and the
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
>>> >> > > on top of
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
>>> >> > > customers.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
>>> >> > > that we
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
>>> >> > people,
>>> >> > > because I
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
>>> >> > > it without
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> problems.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
>>> >> > > cover 70%
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
>>> >> > > strangely
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
>>> >> > > others… Not
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
>>> >> > > problems
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
>>> >> > > if that’s
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
>>> >> > and
>>> >> > > with
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
>>> >> > we
>>> >> > > try it
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
>>> >> > burden
>>> >> > > for us or
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
>>> >> > > browser or
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
>>> >> > > the
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> >
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > --
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> --
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > > >>>>> >>
>>> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
>>> >> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > > >>>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>>
>>> >> > > >>>>> --
>>> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
>>> >> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list
>>> >> > > >>>> [hidden email]
>>> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > > >>>
>>> >> > > >>>
>>> >> > > >>>
>>> >> > > >>> --
>>> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >>
>>> >> > > >>
>>> >> > > >>
>>> >> > > >> --
>>> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > >
>>> >> > > > --
>>> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > --
>>> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
>>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > > devs mailing list
>>> >> > > [hidden email]
>>> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > devs mailing list
>>> >> > [hidden email]
>>> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> >> >
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> devs mailing list
>>> >> [hidden email]
>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > devs mailing list
>>> > [hidden email]
>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thomas Mortagne
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>
> --
> Thomas Mortagne



--
Thomas Mortagne
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
 



On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:13:37, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> >> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> >> >
> >> > -1 because:
> >> >
> >> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> >> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
> >> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
> >>
> >> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
> >> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
> >
> > I was replying to Edy’s comment:
> > "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
> >
> > I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
> > - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
> > - only supporting the latest IE version
> >
> >> So
> >> based on what's on
> >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >>
> >> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
> >
> > And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
>  
> Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
> about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
> systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.

Well you need to elaborate because your sentence doesn’t mean that… Actually your sentence doesn’t mean anything TBH. And I did read it carefully and several times ;)

So now I understand that you mean:

“We should only support the versions of IE that are the latest versions available on *all* supported Microsoft operating systems”.

Correct?

We would need to define precisely what means MS operating system (what service pack for ex, Windows Embedded?).

In any case that doesn’t change my reasoning. Let’s see what others think but since it’s a big decision I feel it’s always better to send VOTEs whenever we wish to drop support for a given IE version (the mail I intend to send for IE8).

Thanks
-Vincent

> > I’m also -1 for that, it’s too harsh and would remove about 30% of market shares if you combine IE8,9,10. Again user usage and stop of support from the creator are 2 different things and do not coincide.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >> > D) Based on your rule we wouldn’t be able to stop supporting IE8 now if we wanted since it’s still supported on all windows versions except XP
> >> >
> >> > More elaborate answer for point B):
> >> >
> >> > You seem to forget for how long we’ve kept support for IE6 even though it wasn’t supported anymore… If 90% of users are using a not supported browser, I say we should still support it. Another good example is windows XP which has been widely successful long after its successors were released because it was just better in several domains...
> >> >
> >> > FTR (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Explorer_6#Release_history):
> >> > - Support for IE6.0 ended September 30, 2004
> >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP1 ended October 10, 2006
> >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP2 ended July 13, 2010
> >> > - Support for IE6.0 SP3 ended on April 8, 2014. However it’s still supported till July 14, 2015 for Windows Server 2003.
> >> >
> >> > So I prefer my proposal which is simply to collectively decide when we wish to drop support for a given version (for example I’m probably going to send soon a mail to propose dropping IE8 support for the 7.x cycle).
> >> >
> >> > Thanks
> >> > -Vincent
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Eduard
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 2:17 PM, Ecaterina Moraru (Valica) > > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > My vote goes to:
> >> >> > +1 to support IE11(IE10) for Flamingo
> >> >> > -1 to support IE8 for Flamingo
> >> >> > +1 to support IE8 for Colibri
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My rationale:
> >> >> > - Flamingo should be viewed as a modern skin and should be displayed on
> >> >> > modern browsers.
> >> >> > - Although Bootstrap states that it support IE8/IE9 (see
> >> >> > http://getbootstrap.com/getting-started/#support-ie8-ie9 ) the support is
> >> >> > partial. Some properties are not fully supported and also you need a
> >> >> > third-party JS dependency.
> >> >> > - We will dedicate development time to fix issues on a browser that will
> >> >> > die soon (and as you said is not supported by Microsoft and I don't even
> >> >> > mention other companies)
> >> >> > - IE8 works with Flamingo, but is not perfect (for me supporting a browser
> >> >> > means assuring all the functionality is working and displaying perfectly on
> >> >> > it). If an user really needs a perfect skin to work with IE8 they should
> >> >> > pick Colibri
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Thanks,
> >> >> > Caty
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 6:11 PM, Thomas Mortagne > > >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > > wrote:
> >> >> > > >> Ok let me rephrase that a bit, what I would like to apply is what MS
> >> >> > > >> plan to upgrade: "only the most current version of Internet Explorer
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > s/upgrade/apply/
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >> available for a supported operating system". So based on what's on
> >> >> > > >> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Right now this mean dropping support for 8 and 9.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:45 PM, [hidden email] <
> >> >> > [hidden email]>
> >> >> > > wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> On 4 Sep 2014 at 16:43:42, Thomas Mortagne (
> >> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >> > > (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> IMO we should modify
> >> >> > > >>>>>
> >> >> > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> >> > > >>>>> with something like "we support what Microsoft support". It's
> >> >> > simple
> >> >> > > >>>>> and easy to defend IMO (why the hell would we do what Microsoft
> >> >> > does
> >> >> > > >>>>> not ?).
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> I don’t like this too much because there are various levels of
> >> >> > > support. General support and the companies take specific IE support for
> >> >> > > older versions.
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>> I'm talking about general support (what MS call "mainstream support"
> >> >> > > >>> on http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle) of course
> >> >> > > >>> since that's what we are talking about here.
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> And then I don’t necessarily agree to support old versions of IE
> >> >> > even
> >> >> > > if MS support them. For me it’s our choice to make.
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> Thanks
> >> >> > > >>>> -Vincent
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Guillaume "Louis-Marie" Delhumeau
> >> >> > > >>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> > +1 for IE9/10/11
> >> >> > > >>>>> > +0 for IE8 (there is a lot of users but even Microsoft does not
> >> >> > > support it!)
> >> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> > 2014-09-04 16:11 GMT+02:00 Thomas Mortagne :
> >> >> > > >>>>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > What about supporting what Microsoft support ? That means not
> >> >> > > IE9/10/11
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> only.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> Remove the "not" of course.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > See
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2014/08/07/stay-up-to-date-with-internet-explorer.aspx
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> .
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > IMO we should not do more that the own browser editor does.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 3:40 PM, [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Reviving this thread since we need to decide and lots of
> >> >> > > committers
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> haven’t voted yet!
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> I’ve updated
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy
> >> >> > with
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> recent market share.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Note that there are various other sources and they don’t seem
> >> >> > > to show
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> similar data:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -
> >> >> > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parts_de_march%C3%A9_des_navigateurs_web
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - http://www.w3counter.com/globalstats.php
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> However I think they all show that if we wish to support 80%
> >> >> > > of users
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> we have to support about the 10 top browsers used and AFAICS
> >> >> > this
> >> >> > > includes:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - IE8/9/10/11
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - FF latest
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Chrome latest
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Safari latest
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> It seems market shared for IE8/9 are still high. However IE10
> >> >> > > is less
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> high (probably because those who upgraded to it quickly upgraded
> >> >> > > to IE11)?
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> So far we have the following votes:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Andrea: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Vincent: +1 to support IE10/11
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> - Marius: +1 to support IE11, +0 to support IE8/9/10
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> Thanks
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> -Vincent
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> On 10 Jun 2014 at 09:08:43, [hidden email] (
> >> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Hi Andrea/all,
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On 10 Jun 2014 at 08:46:45, Andreea Popescu (
> >> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Hello all,
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Following the "Start supporting IE10 and IE11" thread I’d
> >> >> > > like to
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> propose
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > to vote if we will support IE10 and IE11.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> FTR the thread in question is at
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> http://markmail.org/message/zjlbcfkl5cqnrwfk
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > The most important reasons for supporting these versions
> >> >> > > are:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - Internet Explorer 8 and Internet Explorer 9 are still
> >> >> > > widely used
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> by
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > users, but many of them are currently choosing to update
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > > IE10 and
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE11.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > - according to netmarketshare.com (Browsers -> Desktop
> >> >> > > Share by
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> Version)
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > from a total of 100%, IE10 is used by 6.85% users and IE11
> >> >> > > by 16.61%
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> users.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > It’s true that IE10 is not as popular as the older
> >> >> > versions
> >> >> > > (IE8 -
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> 20.85%
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > and IE9 - 8.89%), but its usage percentage is still
> >> >> > > significant.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> > Here’s my +1.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> On the above-mentioned thread Marius had proposed to support
> >> >> > > only the
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> latest version of each browser, which is basically what we’re
> >> >> > > doing except
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> for IE. The rationale is that it takes time to support all
> >> >> > > browsers and the
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> community can only do so much. Companies offering paid services
> >> >> > > on top of
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> XWiki could support the other browser versions for their
> >> >> > > customers.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> While I understand that, my POV is a bit different: I’d like
> >> >> > > that we
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> support the top browsers/versions used by the majority of
> >> >> > people,
> >> >> > > because I
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> feel XWiki will be successful if the majority of people can use
> >> >> > > it without
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> problems.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Looking at the graph at
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > http://dev.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Community/BrowserSupportStrategy if
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> we were to support at least the top 6 browser/versions we would
> >> >> > > cover 70%
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> of the user base. For IE this means supporting IE8-11. Note that
> >> >> > > strangely
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE8 is the top browser in market shares, way above most of the
> >> >> > > others… Not
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting it ATM would mean “loosing" 20%+ of users. If we have
> >> >> > > problems
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> supporting, say the top 10 browsers, then we can drop to top 6,
> >> >> > > if that’s
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> an issue, then to top 5, etc. ATM we’re supporting 5 browsers
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > with
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> IE10-11, this would mean raising to 7 browsers. I propose that
> >> >> > we
> >> >> > > try it
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> with the additional 2 browsers (IE10-11) and see if it’s a
> >> >> > burden
> >> >> > > for us or
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> it’s manageable.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> So there are 2 questions in here:
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Starting the support for IE10-11: I’m +1 for that
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> - Deciding if we want to support only one version for each
> >> >> > > browser or
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> instead support the highest browsers in marketshare. I’m +1 for
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> marketshare approach.
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> Thanks
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>> -Vincent
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> devs mailing list
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> >
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > --
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> > Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> --
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> devs mailing list
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > > >>>>> >>
> >> >> > > >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >>>>> > devs mailing list
> >> >> > > >>>>> > [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> --
> >> >> > > >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >>>>> devs mailing list
> >> >> > > >>>>> [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > > >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > >>>> devs mailing list
> >> >> > > >>>> [hidden email]
> >> >> > > >>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>> --
> >> >> > > >>> Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> --
> >> >> > > >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > --
> >> >> > > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Thomas Mortagne
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > devs mailing list
> >> >> > > [hidden email]
> >> >> > > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > devs mailing list
> >> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> devs mailing list
> >> >> [hidden email]
> >> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > devs mailing list
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thomas Mortagne
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>  
>  
>  
> --
> Thomas Mortagne
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
_______________________________________________
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Thomas Mortagne
 



On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> >>> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> >>> >
> >>> > -1 because:
> >>> >
> >>> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> >>> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
> >>> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
> >>>
> >>> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
> >>> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
> >>
> >> I was replying to Edy’s comment:
> >> "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
> >>
> >> I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
> >> - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
> >> - only supporting the latest IE version
> >>
> >>> So
> >>> based on what's on
> >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> >>>
> >>> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
> >>
> >> And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
> >
> > Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
> > about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
> > systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
>  
> And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the
> application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.

[snip]

If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not breaking backward compatibility… ;)

Thanks
-Vincent


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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

Jean SIMARD
I'm also +1 to support only versions that MS officially supports.

By the way, if we drop support for old IE versions, it will mainly be a problem
for new adopters of XWiki?  We can guess that those who are not updating their
browser will not update their XWiki instance too.

On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 04:29:39PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:

>  
>
>
>
> On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > wrote:
> > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no
> > >>> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > -1 because:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> > >>> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends on our use base and what they are using...
> > >>> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
> > >>>
> > >>> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version of
> > >>> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
> > >>
> > >> I was replying to Edy’s comment:
> > >> "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
> > >>
> > >> I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then because there are 2 different things:
> > >> - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
> > >> - only supporting the latest IE version
> > >>
> > >>> So
> > >>> based on what's on
> > >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> > >>>
> > >>> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8 and 9.
> > >>
> > >> And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
> > >
> > > Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
> > > about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
> > > systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
> >  
> > And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the
> > application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
>
> [snip]
>
> If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not breaking backward compatibility… ;)
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

--
Jean Simard
[hidden email]
Research engineer at XWiki SAS
http://www.xwiki.com
Committer on the XWiki.org project
http://www.xwiki.org
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Re: [VOTE] Start supporting IE10 and IE11

jerem
As a kind of joke, IE6 was supported during a very long time by many
people, not only because it was used by many people, but also ... because
it was not supported by Microsoft !

This makes sense (in a way) : if Microsoft doesn't fix any issue in the
most used browser, then you're left with implementing ugly workarounds
everywhere to support it yourself ... Unless you don't care at all about
providing a software that "works" for most users, but this is a bit weird
approach.

2014-09-09 16:58 GMT+02:00 Jean SIMARD <[hidden email]>:

> I'm also +1 to support only versions that MS officially supports.
>
> By the way, if we drop support for old IE versions, it will mainly be a
> problem
> for new adopters of XWiki?  We can guess that those who are not updating
> their
> browser will not update their XWiki instance too.
>
> On Tue, Sep 09, 2014 at 04:29:39PM +0200, [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 16:16:42, Thomas Mortagne ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Thomas Mortagne
> > > wrote:
> > > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:55 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:49:06, Thomas Mortagne (
> [hidden email](mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:41 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > On 9 Sep 2014 at 15:23:35, Eduard Moraru ([hidden email]
> (mailto:[hidden email])) wrote:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >> +1 for Thomas' logic. If its own maker dropped support for it,
> there is no
> > > >>> >> logic in us supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > -1 because:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > A) it’s very difficult to know which support you’re talking
> about (see below for examples of the 4 dates for IE6.0.x)
> > > >>> > B) it has never worked like this and never will… It all depends
> on our use base and what they are using...
> > > >>> > C) Based on your rule we should still support IE6 SP3 since it’s
> still supported by MS on Windows Server 2003! (see below)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> You should reread what I suggested: "only the most current version
> of
> > > >>> Internet Explorer available for a supported operating system”.
> > > >>
> > > >> I was replying to Edy’s comment:
> > > >> "If its own maker dropped support for it, there is no logic in us
> supporting it. "simple and easy to defend”."
> > > >>
> > > >> I think there has been some confusion about your proposal then
> because there are 2 different things:
> > > >> - not supporting a IE version that MS doesn’t support
> > > >> - only supporting the latest IE version
> > > >>
> > > >>> So
> > > >>> based on what's on
> > > >>> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So no we would not have to support IE6, we would actually drop IE8
> and 9.
> > > >>
> > > >> And IE10 I guess since the most recent is IE11.
> > > >
> > > > Again you did not really carefully read what I said, I never talked
> > > > about the latest IE, I talked about the lastest IE in supported
> > > > systems. The last IE in Windows Vista is IE10.
> > >
> > > And again that's the rule MS plan to apply, they just delayed the
> > > application of this rule. See the blog post I mentioned.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > If you mean, we should do the same as we do for FF and Chrome, then
> sure, once we can confirm that the big majority of Windows users are using
> the latest IE, then we can decide this too. I have some doubts though since
> large companies have always been very conservative in upgrading their
> browser versions because they develop apps for a given version and
> upgrading usually costs a lot. It could work I guess but it may take some
> time for mentalities to evolve and it depends on how good MS is in not
> breaking backward compatibility… ;)
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
> --
> Jean Simard
> [hidden email]
> Research engineer at XWiki SAS
> http://www.xwiki.com
> Committer on the XWiki.org project
> http://www.xwiki.org
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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