[VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

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[VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

vmassol
Administrator
Hi devs,

We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd  
like to propose:

* One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
* The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
* The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are  
translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there  
have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has  
been released.
* The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys  
have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is  
responsible for the quality of translations in general.

Here's my +1

Thanks
-Vincent

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Marius Dumitru Florea
Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd  
> like to propose:
>
> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are  
> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there  
> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has  
> been released.
> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys  
> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is  
> responsible for the quality of translations in general.

Since Guillaume or any other l10n manager doesn't know all the languages
he will need help from native speakers to ensure the quality of the
translations.

>
> Here's my +1

+1

>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Sergiu Dumitriu-2
In reply to this post by vmassol
Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd  
> like to propose:
>
> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are  
> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there  
> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has  
> been released.
> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys  
> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is  
> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>
> Here's my +1
>

+1

--
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http://purl.org/net/sergiu/
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by Marius Dumitru Florea

On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:

> Vincent Massol wrote:
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
>> we'd
>> like to propose:
>>
>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
>> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
>> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2  
>> has
>> been released.
>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
>> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
>> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>
> Since Guillaume or any other l10n manager doesn't know all the  
> languages
> he will need help from native speakers to ensure the quality of the
> translations.

Definitely this is why I said "coordinating validation of key values".

Thanks
-Vincent

>> Here's my +1
>
> +1
>
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Jean-Vincent Drean-3
In reply to this post by vmassol
+1.

JV.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd
> like to propose:
>
> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has
> been released.
> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>
> Here's my +1
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
+1

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:25, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd
> like to propose:
>
> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has
> been released.
> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>
> Here's my +1
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Ludovic Dubost-2

+1

Thomas Mortagne a écrit :

> +1
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 11:25, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process we'd
>> like to propose:
>>
>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
>> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
>> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2 has
>> been released.
>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
>> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
>> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>
>> Here's my +1
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>    
>
>
>
>  


--
Ludovic Dubost
Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

vmassol
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I  
think we need to do 3 things:
- add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen  
(listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to  
choose them)
- add a document resource bundle component that observes document  
changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class  
for document resource bundle for this)
- rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of  
key/values.

Thanks
-Vincent

On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:

> Hi devs,
>
> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
> we'd like to propose:
>
> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there  
> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if  
> there have been important changes to be included in the release  
> after M2 has been released.
> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the  
> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager  
> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>
> Here's my +1
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Jerome Velociter
Vincent Massol wrote:
> I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I  
> think we need to do 3 things:
> - add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen  
> (listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to  
> choose them)
> - add a document resource bundle component that observes document  
> changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class  
> for document resource bundle for this)

Yes this one is key, right now it prevent us to distribute applications
with a l10n resource bundle, so we are _forced_ to hardcode messages :)

Big +1

Jerome.

> - rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of  
> key/values.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
>> we'd like to propose:
>>
>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there  
>> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if  
>> there have been important changes to be included in the release  
>> after M2 has been released.
>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the  
>> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager  
>> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>
>> Here's my +1
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Ludovic Dubost-2
Jerome Velociter a écrit :

> Vincent Massol wrote:
>  
>> I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I  
>> think we need to do 3 things:
>> - add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen  
>> (listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to  
>> choose them)
>> - add a document resource bundle component that observes document  
>> changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class  
>> for document resource bundle for this)
>>    

Don't we already have that as long as we declare resources in the prefs ?

>
> Yes this one is key, right now it prevent us to distribute applications
> with a l10n resource bundle, so we are _forced_ to hardcode messages :)
>
> Big +1
>
> Jerome.
>
>  
>> - rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of  
>> key/values.
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> Hi devs,
>>>
>>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
>>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
>>> we'd like to propose:
>>>
>>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
>>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
>>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
>>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
>>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
>>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there  
>>> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if  
>>> there have been important changes to be included in the release  
>>> after M2 has been released.
>>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the  
>>> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager  
>>> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>>
>>> Here's my +1
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>      
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>  


--
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Blog: http://blog.ludovic.org/
XWiki: http://www.xwiki.com
Skype: ldubost GTalk: ldubost

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Jerome Velociter
Ludovic Dubost wrote:

> Jerome Velociter a écrit :
>> Vincent Massol wrote:
>>  
>>> I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I  
>>> think we need to do 3 things:
>>> - add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen  
>>> (listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to  
>>> choose them)
>>> - add a document resource bundle component that observes document  
>>> changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class  
>>> for document resource bundle for this)
>>>    
>
> Don't we already have that as long as we declare resources in the prefs ?

Yes but we have no clean way to do this from the application itself.

What I meant is that we cannot distribute a packaged application with
resource bundle unless "pointing to the translation document in the
preferences" is part of the install process. I think it complexify
installation for users and discourage developers to make their
application translated, so this is the step we should get rid of.

Jerome.

>> Yes this one is key, right now it prevent us to distribute applications
>> with a l10n resource bundle, so we are _forced_ to hardcode messages :)
>>
>> Big +1
>>
>> Jerome.
>>
>>  
>>> - rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of  
>>> key/values.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>
>>>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've  
>>>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
>>>> we'd like to propose:
>>>>
>>>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means  
>>>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and  
>>>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.  
>>>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>>>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the  
>>>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the  
>>>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>>>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there  
>>>> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if  
>>>> there have been important changes to be included in the release  
>>>> after M2 has been released.
>>>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the  
>>>> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager  
>>>> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>>>
>>>> Here's my +1
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> -Vincent
>>>>
>>>>      
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> devs mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>>    
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>  
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Guillaume Lerouge
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Jerome Velociter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ludovic Dubost wrote:
> > Jerome Velociter a écrit :
> >> Vincent Massol wrote:
> >>
> >>> I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I
> >>> think we need to do 3 things:
> >>> - add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen
> >>> (listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to
> >>> choose them)
> >>> - add a document resource bundle component that observes document
> >>> changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class
> >>> for document resource bundle for this)
> >>>
> >
> > Don't we already have that as long as we declare resources in the prefs ?
>
> Yes but we have no clean way to do this from the application itself.
>
> What I meant is that we cannot distribute a packaged application with
> resource bundle unless "pointing to the translation document in the
> preferences" is part of the install process. I think it complexify
> installation for users and discourage developers to make their
> application translated, so this is the step we should get rid of.
>
Plus there's also an issue when XWiki.XWikiPreferences is updated (sometimes
not voluntarily) and the field overriden and thus translation pages lost.
Guillaume


> Jerome.
>
> >> Yes this one is key, right now it prevent us to distribute applications
> >> with a l10n resource bundle, so we are _forced_ to hardcode messages :)
> >>
> >> Big +1
> >>
> >> Jerome.
> >>
> >>
> >>> - rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of
> >>> key/values.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Hi devs,
> >>>>
> >>>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
> >>>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process
> >>>> we'd like to propose:
> >>>>
> >>>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
> >>>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
> >>>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
> >>>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> >>>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
> >>>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
> >>>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> >>>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there
> >>>> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if
> >>>> there have been important changes to be included in the release
> >>>> after M2 has been released.
> >>>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the
> >>>> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager
> >>>> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here's my +1
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>> -Vincent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> devs mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devs mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



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Product Manager - XWiki
Skype ID : wikibc
http://guillaumelerouge.com/
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
In reply to this post by vmassol
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 09:16, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I forgot to mention that in order to better handle translations I
> think we need to do 3 things:
> - add support for importing languages in the XAR import screen
> (listing all languages available in a XAR and offering checkboxes to
> choose them)
> - add a document resource bundle component that observes document
> changes and adds document resource bundles to $msg (we need a class
> for document resource bundle for this)

Note: this is done by automatically application manager plugin if the
application come with an application descriptor listing its
translation documents. We could use this for XE as it's used on XEM
for application manager, wiki manager application and XEM application.

> - rework some app translations so that we use translations instead of
> key/values.
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:25 AM, Vincent Massol wrote:
>
>> Hi devs,
>>
>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process
>> we'd like to propose:
>>
>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there
>> are translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if
>> there have been important changes to be included in the release
>> after M2 has been released.
>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the
>> keys have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager
>> is responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>
>> Here's my +1
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

rrodrigueznt
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hi devs!

I hope it is OK to follow this thread with some L18n questions. Please,
see below.

Vincent Massol wrote:

> On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
>
>  
>> Vincent Massol wrote:
>>    
>>> Hi devs,
>>>
>>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
>>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process  
>>> we'd
>>> like to propose:
>>>
>>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
>>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
>>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
>>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
>>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
>>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
>>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
>>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
>>> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
>>> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2  
>>> has
>>> been released.
>>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
>>> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
>>> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
>>>      
>> Since Guillaume or any other l10n manager doesn't know all the  
>> languages
>> he will need help from native speakers to ensure the quality of the
>> translations.
>>    
>
> Definitely this is why I said "coordinating validation of key values".
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>  

A member of our team has been working on the XE Galician (gl)
translation. Once all the string has been translated, he has also
checked the "Validate with no change" to get them included in the next
XE release. But we have some doubts about the process:

1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).

2. How "validation" is performed? If we as translators are able of
validation our own translation, it has not much sense to add this extra
step. On the other side, for certain languages as Galician, it won't be
easy to get a "validator" other than the person that did the translation.

3. When a given Application Resource file of a given language is
officially released?

>>> Here's my +1
>>>      
>> +1
>>
>>    
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>      
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>  
Thanks for your help,

Ricardo

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Guillaume Lerouge
Hi Ricardo,

On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 1:34 PM, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT
Team <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi devs!
>
> I hope it is OK to follow this thread with some L18n questions. Please,
> see below.
>
> Vincent Massol wrote:
> > On Mar 23, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Vincent Massol wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi devs,
> >>>
> >>> We need to define a strategy for better handling translations. I've
> >>> had a call with Guillaume and Jean-Vincent and here's the process
> >>> we'd
> >>> like to propose:
> >>>
> >>> * One person is in charge of http://l10n.xwiki.org/. This means
> >>> monitoring the work there, coordinating validation of key values and
> >>> ensuring validated translations are incorporated in the source tree.
> >>> Guillaume is willing to take that role for now.
> >>> * The XE release manager has the responsibility of taking the
> >>> validated keys on l10n.xwiki.org and committing them during the
> >>> Milestone 2 dev (before the RC1).
> >>> * The l10n manager should ping the release manager whenever there are
> >>> translated and validated keys ready to be incorporated or if there
> >>> have been important changes to be included in the release after M2
> >>> has
> >>> been released.
> >>> * The l10n manager should test XE and the applications after the keys
> >>> have been applied to ensure quality. Basically the l10n manager is
> >>> responsible for the quality of translations in general.
> >>>
> >> Since Guillaume or any other l10n manager doesn't know all the
> >> languages
> >> he will need help from native speakers to ensure the quality of the
> >> translations.
> >>
> >
> > Definitely this is why I said "coordinating validation of key values".
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Vincent
> >
> >
>
> A member of our team has been working on the XE Galician (gl)
> translation. Once all the string has been translated, he has also
> checked the "Validate with no change" to get them included in the next
> XE release. But we have some doubts about the process:
>
> 1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
> we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
> than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).
>
> 2. How "validation" is performed? If we as translators are able of
> validation our own translation, it has not much sense to add this extra
> step. On the other side, for certain languages as Galician, it won't be
> easy to get a "validator" other than the person that did the translation.
>

It can still be useful to review yourself. I do it for myself with French
and I sometimes spot mistakes I made myself :-)

The best would be to find someone else to perform the review, since
reviewing takes a lot less time than translating in the first place it would
be very cool if you could find a second galician-speaking person to perform
the review.


> 3. When a given Application Resource file of a given language is
> officially released?
>

Right before each release the developer in charge of the release usually
takes the latest version of every language's ApplicationResourcesProperties
file and commits it if some new key translations were added for that
language since the last release.

Guillaume

>>> Here's my +1
> >>>
> >> +1
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Vincent
> >>>
> >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > devs mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
> >
> >
> >
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Ricardo
>
> --
> Ricardo Rodríguez
> Your EPEC Network ICT Team
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



--
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Product Manager - XWiki SAS
Skype: wikibc
Twitter: glerouge
http://guillaumelerouge.com/
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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

rrodrigueznt
Thanks, Guillaume!

Please, let me insist in a the remaining question:

>  
>> 1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
>> we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
>> than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).
>  

Cheers!

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Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Caleb James DeLisle
Hello Ricardo,
    I think I know the answer to this, I remember reading something that
lead me to think that if there is no translation for a given key, the
default (English) version is used instead.

I didn't test it so I might be wrong...

Caleb James DeLisle



[Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team wrote:

> Thanks, Guillaume!
>
> Please, let me insist in a the remaining question:
>
>>  
>>> 1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
>>> we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
>>> than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).
>>  
>
> Cheers!
>

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

rrodrigueznt
Thanks, Caleb,

Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
> Hello Ricardo,
>     I think I know the answer to this, I remember reading something that
> lead me to think that if there is no translation for a given key, the
> default (English) version is used instead.
>
> I didn't test it so I might be wrong...
>
> Caleb James DeLisle
>  
I think this is right. But it does explain the cases where the number of
translations in a given language is less than the default one. Actually,
none of the current XE translations is in this situation.

Let's concentrate on
http://l10n.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/XE/XWikiCoreResources

The default one has 2048 translations. pt, ro, lv and ko translations
have the same number. I guess they are the same keys included in the
default translation and that the people in charge of these four files
have did the perfectly work.

Gl has 2073 translations and 25 dead translations. The difference is
2048. Perfect! But, why don't remove the dead translations from the
resources file in each language? In other way, how to remove dead
translations from a given language?

>
>
> [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team wrote:
>  
>> Thanks, Guillaume!
>>
>> Please, let me insist in a the remaining question:
>>
>>    
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> 1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
>>>> we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
>>>> than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).
>>>>        
>>>  
>>>      
>> Cheers!
>>
>>    
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>
>
>  

Thanks!

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Your EPEC Network ICT Team

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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

Thomas Mortagne
Administrator
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 14:48, [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network
ICT Team <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks, Caleb,
>
> Caleb James DeLisle wrote:
>> Hello Ricardo,
>>     I think I know the answer to this, I remember reading something that
>> lead me to think that if there is no translation for a given key, the
>> default (English) version is used instead.
>>
>> I didn't test it so I might be wrong...
>>
>> Caleb James DeLisle
>>
> I think this is right. But it does explain the cases where the number of
> translations in a given language is less than the default one. Actually,
> none of the current XE translations is in this situation.
>
> Let's concentrate on
> http://l10n.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/XE/XWikiCoreResources
>
> The default one has 2048 translations. pt, ro, lv and ko translations
> have the same number. I guess they are the same keys included in the
> default translation and that the people in charge of these four files
> have did the perfectly work.
>
> Gl has 2073 translations and 25 dead translations. The difference is
> 2048. Perfect! But, why don't remove the dead translations from the
> resources file in each language? In other way, how to remove dead
> translations from a given language?

Yes it's a dead translation issue and the answer is something like:
for now the choice has been to safest one (don't automatically delete
anything to not loose history) and no one had time to think a lot more
about how to deal with dead translations.

We should maybe remove the "Number of translations" and "Number of
dead translations" column since it does not bring any value IMO. The
important ones are "Number of Empty/outdated translations".

Note that if you absolutely want to do some cleanup, each translation
value has it's own document so you just need to delete the
corresponding page (click on the link in the "Key" column to do to the
page).

>
>>
>>
>> [Ricardo Rodriguez] Your EPEC Network ICT Team wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Guillaume!
>>>
>>> Please, let me insist in a the remaining question:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 1. Why are there a different number of keys for each language? As far as
>>>>> we understand, each translation must content the same number of keys
>>>>> than the default translation (English, to the best of my knowledge).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> devs mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> Ricardo Rodríguez
> Your EPEC Network ICT Team
>
> _______________________________________________
> devs mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
>



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Re: [VOTE] Strategy for handling translations

rrodrigueznt
Hi Thomas.

Thomas Mortagne wrote:

>
> Yes it's a dead translation issue and the answer is something like:
> for now the choice has been to safest one (don't automatically delete
> anything to not loose history) and no one had time to think a lot more
> about how to deal with dead translations.
>
> We should maybe remove the "Number of translations" and "Number of
> dead translations" column since it does not bring any value IMO. The
> important ones are "Number of Empty/outdated translations".
>
> Note that if you absolutely want to do some cleanup, each translation
> value has it's own document so you just need to delete the
> corresponding page (click on the link in the "Key" column to do to the
> page).
>
>  

Ok, I get the point. Thanks.

Just two more doubts:

1. What is expected to get when I click the "Compare with Application
Resource" link? Must I get some kind of list of differences between
ApplicationResources.properties and the same file of any given translation?

2. Concerning dead translations. There are at least two keys in the
Galician translation that I don't understand why are not included in the
default ApplicationResources.properties

http://l10n.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/XE/XEXWikiCoreResources_-1793646742_galician_gl
http://l10n.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/XE/XEXWikiCoreResources_-899451350_slovak_gl

As far as I understand, each resources file must contain the translation
to its language of all the other available languages, mustn't it? Thus,
each time a new language is available, a new key must be included in all
resources files. Coming back to the same example, I am not able to find
the key galician in the default ApplicationResources.properties file.

Please, am I wrong? Must this key be included in
ApplicationResources.properties?

Thanks!

Ricardo

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