Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

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Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
I m using the XWiki farm and although I am stoked about the capabilities to add properties, create classes and use document as objects I still lack the complete understanding of the inner relationships and have to interpret existing code examples, the API docu and use trial and error for making (slow) progress. Here are two categories of questions, I intentionally did not post as separate items, since others might encounter the same:

Category Bigger Picture:
- I started creating my application using the current release on the xwiki.com farm, how much rewriting do I have to do after XWIKI V1.0 will be released? None I assume, but I want to make sure.
- How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local, means if you want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?
- How is the visibility of Objects across pages? I noticed that a link to another page from the menu page had the question mark behind it, if the home page was shown on the main page, but was available, if one of my own pages are on the main page. This suggests, although the menu and the home page have the same parent (do they?) and my own created page shares only the same root (xwiki I assume) with the menu page that there are mechanisms I don't understand. Please help
- I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
- Are there any recommended practices for how to use HTML constructs and the implication on how the panels and the main page look like then? E.g., using frame, iframe
- How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism available?

Category: How to do ....
- How do I change a value of a property of an object and commit it so it is stored in the database?
- How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very powerful in creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc. but I am unable to decipher how to use it.
-How do I create Classes inheriting other Classes I created?

Thanks in advance
Uwe
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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

vmassol
Administrator
Hi Uwe,

On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Oova wrote:

>
> I m using the XWiki farm and although I am stoked about the  
> capabilities to
> add properties, create classes and use document as objects I still  
> lack the
> complete understanding of the inner relationships and have to  
> interpret
> existing code examples, the API docu and use trial and error for  
> making
> (slow) progress. Here are two categories of questions, I  
> intentionally did
> not post as separate items, since others might encounter the same:
>
> Category Bigger Picture:
> - I started creating my application using the current release on the
> xwiki.com farm, how much rewriting do I have to do after XWIKI V1.0  
> will be
> released? None I assume, but I want to make sure.
The farm is upgraded when new releases come out but we're lagging a  
bit behind. I think the farm is currently on 1.0 Beta 3. This means  
that you won't have anything to change when we upgrade to Beta 6 and  
later 1.0, etc.

> - How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume
> references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local,  
> means if you
> want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar  
> and the
> main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which  
> can be
> used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?

Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the  
scope is global.

> - How is the visibility of Objects across pages? I noticed that a  
> link to
> another page from the menu page had the question mark behind it, if  
> the home
> page was shown on the main page, but was available, if one of my  
> own pages
> are on the main page. This suggests, although the menu and the home  
> page
> have the same parent (do they?) and my own created page shares only  
> the same
> root (xwiki I assume) with the menu page that there are mechanisms  
> I don't
> understand. Please help
A full page name has the space mentioned as in Space.Page (e.g.  
Main.WebHome). If on a page from a different space you include pages  
from another space you need to use the full name with the space.  
Otherwise it's not required.

> - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I
> understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned  
> with some
> examples, who is in charge of it and could help?

Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is  
missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that  
is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain  
what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on  
xwiki.org and implement it.

I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good  
quality, etc.

> - Are there any recommended practices for how to use HTML  
> constructs and the
> implication on how the panels and the main page look like then?  
> E.g., using
> frame, iframe

Not that I know of. General rule is to use the minimum of HTML.

> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
> available?

Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)

I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something  
easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know  
where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!

>
> Category: How to do ....
> - How do I change a value of a property of an object and commit it  
> so it is
> stored in the database?

Just edit the property and save the page. If you're talking  
programatically, then set the value and call $doc.save() (I haven't  
tried it so I'm not sure).

> - How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very  
> powerful in
> creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc.  
> but I am
> unable to decipher how to use it.

Never used it

> -How do I create Classes inheriting other Classes I created?

You can't (AFAIK).

Thanks
-Vincent




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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.

vmassol wrote
Hi Uwe,

On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:37 AM, Oova wrote:

>
> - How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume
> references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local,  
> means if you
> want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar  
> and the
> main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which  
> can be
> used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice here?

Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the  
scope is global.

I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem I had?


> - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I
> understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned  
> with some
> examples, who is in charge of it and could help?

Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is  
missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that  
is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain  
what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on  
xwiki.org and implement it.

I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good  
quality, etc.

Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I didn't understand). The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a comment to the method, you have additional information. Example: getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String action) , what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it correctly? What does the method getProtectedContext()  do, the notion of protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant. And I understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute, but I need to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start documenting it. Maybe it is just me.

> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
> available?

Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)

I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something  
easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know  
where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!

I was looking for import/export with search function and found one relevant document from you http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?


Thanks
-Vincent




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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

vmassol
Administrator

On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:

>
> Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers  
> below. I
> took out the pieces, which are answered.

[snip]

>>> - How is the visibility of references across spaces/pages? I assume
>>> references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local,
>>> means if you
>>> want for example work with one document on the menu and the toolbar
>>> and the
>>> main page, you have to create a kind of administrator object, which
>>> can be
>>> used across the xwiki or space. What is the recommended practice  
>>> here?
>>
>> Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the
>> scope is global.
>>
>> I tried, and the vairables were not global. Mistake?Design?Problem  
>> I had?
Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :)

I can think of 2 ways to share data:

1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope or  
Request scope. You can get access to the request using $request. The  
session can be obtained with $request.getSession(), etc.

2) Use the XWiki Context:

$context.put("mykey", someObject);

and

$context.get("mykey")

>>> - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the API, if I
>>> understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned
>>> with some
>>> examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is
>> missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see something that
>> is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain
>> what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on
>> xwiki.org and implement it.
>>
>> I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent, has a good
>> quality, etc.
>>
>> Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the  
>> methods and
>> their parameters in the API docu. After I thought I had a hunch, I  
>> tried
>> them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which just means I  
>> didn't
>> understand).
40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)

>> The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody
>> added a comment to the method, you have additional information.  
>> Example:
>> getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String  
>> action) ,
>> what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless  
>> about is
>> 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how do I use it  
>> correctly?
>> What does the method getProtectedContext()  do, the notion of
>> protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole  
>> documentation,
>> which explains such things? I hope I was more clear what I meant.
Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a developer's  
guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the other day and we came  
up with the following ideas:
http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas- 
tf3455730.html#a9641200

Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on top of  
XWiki is by looking at examples:
- by looking at existing pages sources
- by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org

Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing, help is  
welcome to improve the doco.

>> And I
>> understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to contribute,  
>> but I need
>> to understand the architecture and concept first, before I start
>> documenting it. Maybe it is just me.

No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the development side.

>>
>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>> available?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>
>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
>>
>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>> relevant document from you
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which  
>> doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to  
users of the farm?

Thanks
-Vincent




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RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI)
I am very sympathetic to Uwe's plight, as even with the Javadoc I was
all but lost until I actually started running it under Eclipse, where I
could follow references through all of the indirections and blind
interfaces.

An idea that I had some time ago got some discussion, but no action
(including from me):  have XWiki pages that import the Javadoc through a
filter that decorates parts of it with comment blocks for people to
scribble on, so that our collective understanding can accumulate bit by
bit and the real Javadoc comments can be improved.

I think the reason that it never went anywhere was that, in addition to
not having a lot of time (despite knowing that it would save a lot more
time than it cost us), we're all such a lot of incurable GEEKS that we
had to architect a perfect, scalable, future-proof solution before
beginning to work.  Ironic enough since the whole wiki concept is about
creating an environment where ideas can be developed together starting
with just the barest seed and proving ideas as they are put forward,
scrapping them and starting over when it gets too hard to continue in
one direction.

Now that I think of it, one reason that I didn't get anywhere in trying
something like that was that I was unable to locate an HTML DOM library
that I could read the pages into, decorate and display.

I think I'm going to start another Idea page...

brain[sic]  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vincent Massol [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:31 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and
> Class/Object model
>
>
> On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers
> > below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.
>
> [snip]
>
> >>> - How is the visibility of references across
> spaces/pages? I assume
> >>> references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local,
> >>> means if you want for example work with one document on
> the menu and
> >>> the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of
> >>> administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki
> or space.
> >>> What is the recommended practice here?
> >>
> >> Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the
> >> scope is global.
> >>
> >> I tried, and the vairables were not global.
> Mistake?Design?Problem I
> >> had?
>
> Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :)
>
> I can think of 2 ways to share data:
>
> 1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope
> or Request scope. You can get access to the request using
> $request. The session can be obtained with $request.getSession(), etc.
>
> 2) Use the XWiki Context:
>
> $context.put("mykey", someObject);
>
> and
>
> $context.get("mykey")
>
> >>> - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the
> API, if I
> >>> understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned
> >>> with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
> >>
> >> Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is
> >> missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see
> something that
> >> is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain
> >> what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on
> >> xwiki.org and implement it.
> >>
> >> I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent,
> has a good
> >> quality, etc.
> >>
> >> Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the
> >> methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I
> thought I had a
> >> hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which
> >> just means I didn't understand).
>
> 40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)
>
> >> The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a
> >> comment to the method, you have additional information.
> >> Example:
> >> getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String
> >> action) ,
> >> what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless
> >> about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how
> do I use
> >> it correctly?
> >> What does the method getProtectedContext()  do, the notion of
> >> protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole
> >> documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear
> >> what I meant.
>
> Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a
> developer's guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the
> other day and we came up with the following ideas:
> http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas-
> tf3455730.html#a9641200
>
> Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on
> top of XWiki is by looking at examples:
> - by looking at existing pages sources
> - by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org
>
> Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing,
> help is welcome to improve the doco.
>
> >> And I
> >> understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to
> contribute, but I
> >> need to understand the architecture and concept first,
> before I start
> >> documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
>
> No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the
> development side.
>
> >>
> >>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import
> mechanism
> >>> available?
> >>
> >> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
> >>
> >> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is
> something
> >> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
> >> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the
> documentation!
> >>
> >> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
> >> relevant document from you
> >> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which
> >> doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
>
> ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't
> apply to users of the farm?
>
> Thanks
> -Vincent
>
>
>


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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

vmassol
Administrator

On Apr 4, 2007, at 6:59 PM, THOMAS, BRIAN M ((ATTSI)) wrote:

> I am very sympathetic to Uwe's plight, as even with the Javadoc I was
> all but lost until I actually started running it under Eclipse,  
> where I
> could follow references through all of the indirections and blind
> interfaces.
>
> An idea that I had some time ago got some discussion, but no action
> (including from me):  have XWiki pages that import the Javadoc  
> through a
> filter that decorates parts of it with comment blocks for people to
> scribble on, so that our collective understanding can accumulate  
> bit by
> bit and the real Javadoc comments can be improved.
>
> I think the reason that it never went anywhere was that, in  
> addition to
> not having a lot of time (despite knowing that it would save a lot  
> more
> time than it cost us), we're all such a lot of incurable GEEKS that we
> had to architect a perfect, scalable, future-proof solution before
> beginning to work.
how true... So we end up doing nothing in the end...

>   Ironic enough since the whole wiki concept is about
> creating an environment where ideas can be developed together starting
> with just the barest seed and proving ideas as they are put forward,
> scrapping them and starting over when it gets too hard to continue in
> one direction.
>
> Now that I think of it, one reason that I didn't get anywhere in  
> trying
> something like that was that I was unable to locate an HTML DOM  
> library
> that I could read the pages into, decorate and display.
>
> I think I'm going to start another Idea page...
Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http://
doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/)

Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki.  
The killer feature would be of course that after review the changes  
are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example).

Thanks
-Vincent

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vincent Massol [mailto:[hidden email]]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:31 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [xwiki-users] Xwiki.com API stability and
>> Class/Object model
>>
>>
>> On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Vincent, Thanks for the prompt response, Please see my answers
>>> below. I took out the pieces, which are answered.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>>> - How is the visibility of references across
>> spaces/pages? I assume
>>>>> references created locally on a page (e.g., $mydoc) stay local,
>>>>> means if you want for example work with one document on
>> the menu and
>>>>> the toolbar and the main page, you have to create a kind of
>>>>> administrator object, which can be used across the xwiki
>> or space.
>>>>> What is the recommended practice here?
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried it? I don't have the time right now but I'd say the
>>>> scope is global.
>>>>
>>>> I tried, and the vairables were not global.
>> Mistake?Design?Problem I
>>>> had?
>>
>> Cool then, I was worried the scope was global :)
>>
>> I can think of 2 ways to share data:
>>
>> 1) Use the Servlet scopes: Application scope, Session scope
>> or Request scope. You can get access to the request using
>> $request. The session can be obtained with $request.getSession(),  
>> etc.
>>
>> 2) Use the XWiki Context:
>>
>> $context.put("mykey", someObject);
>>
>> and
>>
>> $context.get("mykey")
>>
>>>>> - I would volunteer to create a docu about how to use the
>> API, if I
>>>>> understood the inner guts of it. When is a documentation planned
>>>>> with some examples, who is in charge of it and could help?
>>>>
>>>> Have you checked the documentation on http://xwiki.org? What is
>>>> missing? Everyone is in charge... It's a wiki. You see
>> something that
>>>> is required, you volunteer, you ask on the list first and explain
>>>> what you want to do and when you get agreement, you edit pages on
>>>> xwiki.org and implement it.
>>>>
>>>> I do look after xwiki.org to ensure it stays consistent,
>> has a good
>>>> quality, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Vincent, I spent hours trying to understand the meaning of the
>>>> methods and their parameters in the API docu. After I
>> thought I had a
>>>> hunch, I tried them and failed in approx. 60% of the cases (which
>>>> just means I didn't understand).
>>
>> 40% is quite good seen the low level of comments... :)
>>
>>>> The docu is generated automatically and only if somebody added a
>>>> comment to the method, you have additional information.
>>>> Example:
>>>> getAttachmentURL(java.lang.String filename, java.lang.String
>>>> action) ,
>>>> what is "action"? I have no clue, other parameters I am clueless
>>>> about is 'key'. What does the $context really mean and how
>> do I use
>>>> it correctly?
>>>> What does the method getProtectedContext()  do, the notion of
>>>> protectedContext is new to me, etc. etc. Did I miss a whole
>>>> documentation, which explains such things? I hope I was more clear
>>>> what I meant.
>>
>> Yes, and all your points are very valid. We're missing a
>> developer's guide. We discussed this with Jean-Vincent the
>> other day and we came up with the following ideas:
>> http://www.nabble.com/Developer%27s-Guide-improvements-ideas-
>> tf3455730.html#a9641200
>>
>> Right now, I think the easiest way for someone to develop on
>> top of XWiki is by looking at examples:
>> - by looking at existing pages sources
>> - by looking in the Code zone on xwiki.org
>>
>> Now of course, once you figure out what something is doing,
>> help is welcome to improve the doco.
>>
>>>> And I
>>>> understand it is a wiki and everybody is invited to
>> contribute, but I
>>>> need to understand the architecture and concept first,
>> before I start
>>>> documenting it. Maybe it is just me.
>>
>> No it's not you... Documentation isn't too good on the
>> development side.
>>
>>>>
>>>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import
>> mechanism
>>>>> available?
>>>>
>>>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is
>> something
>>>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>>>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the
>> documentation!
>>>>
>>>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>>>> relevant document from you
>>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which
>>>> doesn't apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
>>
>> ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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> You receive this message as a subscriber of the xwiki-
> [hidden email] mailing list.
> To unsubscribe: mailto:[hidden email]
> For general help: mailto:[hidden email]?subject=help
> ObjectWeb mailing lists service home page: http://www.objectweb.org/ 
> wws



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RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI)


>
> Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http://
> doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/)
>
> Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki.  
> The killer feature would be of course that after review the
> changes are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example).

If by "killer feature" you mean the one that killed the idea, I'll
agree...

We can gain a great deal of benefit (including support time not stolen
from developers) if we can get something going and start collecting
content and helping keep users off our backs; worrying about how to
incorporate the content into the code can wait for when we have some
content to incorporate.  If you have to cut and paste the content by
hand it's still loads quicker than having to make it up yourself...  And
besides, it's the Wiki Way...


> Thanks
> -Vincent



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

vmassol
Administrator

On Apr 4, 2007, at 7:58 PM, THOMAS, BRIAN M ((ATTSI)) wrote:

>
>
>>
>> Actually there's something similar that exists: docweb (See http://
>> doc.java.sun.com/DocWeb/)
>>
>> Of course it would be a killer app if we could make this in xwiki.
>> The killer feature would be of course that after review the
>> changes are incorporated in SVN (using svnkit for example).
>
> If by "killer feature" you mean the one that killed the idea, I'll
> agree...
>
> We can gain a great deal of benefit (including support time not stolen
> from developers) if we can get something going and start collecting
> content and helping keep users off our backs;
I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll work  
though as:
1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't know what  
it does
2) once users know what it does, they usually go away
3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it

:)

But I like the idea...  and would be game to try it... if someone  
else implements it... (all my time is currently used for the 1.0  
release)

> worrying about how to
> incorporate the content into the code can wait for when we have some
> content to incorporate.  If you have to cut and paste the content by
> hand it's still loads quicker than having to make it up  
> yourself...  And
> besides, it's the Wiki Way...

Yeah...

Thanks
-Vincent




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RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI)

>
> I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll
> work though as:
> 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
> know what it does
> 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away
> 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
>
> :)

Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not
necessarily talking of these users.  I'm talking about people like me
who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that
little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when
it's in the context of the document

> But I like the idea...  and would be game to try it... if
> someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used
> for the 1.0
> release)
>

The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't
found an HTML DOM parser.  Is there one in the myriad of libraries that
come with XWiki?



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
In reply to this post by vmassol
Anyboy, could you please help me with the below one? Thanks in advance

> - How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very  
> powerful in
> creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc.  
> but I am
> unable to decipher how to use it.



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by vmassol
vmassol wrote
On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:

>>
>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>> available?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>
>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
>>
>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>> relevant document from you
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which  
>> doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?

ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to  
users of the farm?

Vincent, your answer confuses me, are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used.
Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of running it to dump my code in it? I think I don't' understand.



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by vmassol
vmassol wrote
On Apr 4, 2007, at 5:04 PM, Oova wrote:

>>
>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>> available?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>
>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
>>
>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>> relevant document from you
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which  
>> doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?

ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to  
users of the farm?

Vincent, your answer confuses me, are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used.
Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of running it to dump my code in it? I think I don't' understand.



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by vmassol
vmassol wrote


>>
>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>> available?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>
>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
>>
>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>> relevant document from you
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which  
>> doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?

ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to  
users of the farm?

Thanks
-Vincent

Vincent, your answer confuses me, are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used.
Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of running it to dump my code in it? I think I don't' understand.




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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
In reply to this post by vmassol
vmassol wrote


>>
>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>> available?
>>
>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>
>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the documentation!
>>
>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>> relevant document from you
>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which  
>> doesn't
>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?

ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to  
users of the farm?

Thanks
-Vincent
I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/recreate content I wrote independent of what database, development environment etc. is used.
Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to dump my code in it?




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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

vmassol
Administrator

On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:

> vmassol wrote:
>>>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>>>> available?
>>>>
>>>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>>>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>>>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the  
>>>> documentation!
>>>>
>>>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>>>> relevant document from you
>>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which
>>>> doesn't
>>>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
>>
>> ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to
>> users of the farm?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in
>> order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I
>> expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/
>> recreate
>> content I wrote independent of what database, development  
>> environment etc.
>> is used.
>> Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to  
>> dump my
>> code in it?
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is  
using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using  
version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature  
(provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely  
sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm).

Thanks
-Vincent




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RE: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
In reply to this post by THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI)
Guys,

I must be another breed, I barely follow you, 'these' users and 'those' users, automatically generated comment pages for users to fill it out, etc..... I am just lost or too old fashioned.
My humble opinion is as follows. In house building as in software, if you want to enable somebody else to build an application (house) you give them a description, what kind of particular applications (houses) you especially are qualified to help building FASTER and BETTER than usual (Benefits overview and tools to gain those benefits). You also write, what kind of skill set might be useful to take advantage of the tools your provide. Then you provide the architecture (blueprint, ....) and explain what kind of interfaces (for walls, windows, plumbing, roofing,...) you created to enable others to build. To expedite the break-in you give some sample applications illustrating how the architecture, interfaces and tools helped gain the benefits for some use cases. And I am sorry, no offense, you do not ask the engineer who designed the software kit/ housing builder kit do document it, otherwise it becomes a kit from highly skilled engineers for other highly skilled engineers written in a highly specialized technise language, which the target audience might not speak. You normally ask a guinea pig out of the targeted audience to try to document, what it understands and let it build at least one application (house) using the tools provided. And you nurture the guinea pig with enough food, encouragement and help, so the snowball effect making the whole target audience aware of your great stuff can start and you as the engineer can go back cranking out the next great SW and tool for even better applications and houses. Making sense? Any agreement?
I am a guinea pig, I am eager to use Xwiki, because for some reason, I think XWiki is a great concept (don't let me go into the 'Crossing the chasm modeling, or the 4 steps of the epiphany', both great models of how to establish innovation in the market place successfully and go beyond the innovator's initial excitement). But you need to let the targeted audience pick-up the momentum.

Enough Philosophy, if there is any agreement on what I said before, let me, Guillaume and other 'users' spread the word in a lower level technise. To enable us we need to understand
- targeted user (groups)
- architecture
- concept of object model and API
- guts (and not only nice webpages) of successful applications of the XWiki (or is the XWikis main purpose to create nice looking webpages? I did not think so)

Uwe

THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) wrote
>
> I wish this were true... I don't think a second that it'll
> work though as:
> 1) users will say that they cannot document if they don't
> know what it does
> 2) once users know what it does, they usually go away
> 3) users don't like to document anymore than developers like it
>
> :)

Your points are generally true, but when you talk of "users" you're not
necessarily talking of these users.  I'm talking about people like me
who would have loved it if someone had just told them this or that
little tidbit of information, and gladly contribute it, especially when
it's in the context of the document

> But I like the idea...  and would be game to try it... if
> someone else implements it... (all my time is currently used
> for the 1.0
> release)
>

The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't
found an HTML DOM parser.  Is there one in the myriad of libraries that
come with XWiki?



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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Oova
In reply to this post by vmassol
I seem to be the admin of my site, since i was the creator and have all other admin menu items available  but have no menu item for import/export. Any way you can think of getting me those rights?
uwe
vmassol wrote
On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:

> vmassol wrote:
>>>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
>>>>> available?
>>>>
>>>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
>>>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
>>>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the  
>>>> documentation!
>>>>
>>>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
>>>> relevant document from you
>>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which
>>>> doesn't
>>>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
>>
>> ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to
>> users of the farm?
>>
>> Thanks
>> -Vincent
>> I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in
>> order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I
>> expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/
>> recreate
>> content I wrote independent of what database, development  
>> environment etc.
>> is used.
>> Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to  
>> dump my
>> code in it?

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is  
using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using  
version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature  
(provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely  
sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm).

Thanks
-Vincent




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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Sergiu Dumitriu
In reply to this post by Oova
Hi,

A DatabaseList consists of a query that returns the entries in the list.

1. The query is written using HQL (Hibernate Query Language), a SQL-like language. I can't explain the data model it works with, but you can search the various pages where it is used (search for documents containing $xwiki.search or searchDocuments).
2. If it returns one value per result, it will be used as the list entry value and displayed text. If it returns two or more values per result, the first part is used as the value, while the second one is used as the displayed text.
3. You can configure the list, specifying how it is displayed (drop-down, radio buttons, checkboxes), whether it allows single or multiple selection, the site of the drop-down, and some other properties.

Hope this helps a bit.


On 4/5/07, Oova <[hidden email]> wrote:

Anyboy, could you please help me with the below one? Thanks in advance

> - How do I use the property "Database List Class", it seems very
> powerful in
> creating dynamic lists of values, references to other objects etc.
> but I am
> unable to decipher how to use it.

Sergiu
--
http://purl.org/net/sergiu

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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Sergiu Dumitriu
In reply to this post by THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI)


On 4/4/07, THOMAS, BRIAN M (ATTSI) <[hidden email]> wrote:

The only reason I haven't already made a start of it is that I haven't
found an HTML DOM parser.  Is there one in the myriad of libraries that
come with XWiki?


What do you mean by "HTML DOM parser"? You can use any DOM parser as long as it's well formed XML, and it should be.


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Re: Xwiki.com API stability and Class/Object model

Catalin Hritcu
In reply to this post by vmassol
Hi Uwe,

On 4/5/07, Vincent Massol <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Apr 5, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Oova wrote:
>
> > vmassol wrote:
> >>>>> - How to I archive the code I created? Any export/import mechanism
> >>>>> available?
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you checked the documentation on xwiki.org? :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm not giving you the answer as I want to ensure this is something
> >>>> easy to find out. If you don't find it easily please let us know
> >>>> where you were expecting it so that we can improve the
> >>>> documentation!
> >>>>
> >>>> I was looking for import/export with search function and found one
> >>>> relevant document from you
> >>>> http://www.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/AdminGuide/ImportExport which
> >>>> doesn't
> >>>> apply to users of the farm. What did I miss?
> >>
> >> ok so you found the page, cool. Why do you say it doesn't apply to
> >> users of the farm?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >> -Vincent
> >> I am confused: are you asking me to do all the installation  steps in
> >> order to archive my own code?  That is how I understand the guide. I
> >> expected an import/export function, which allows me to archive/
> >> recreate
> >> content I wrote independent of what database, development
> >> environment etc.
> >> is used.
> >> Are you saying I gave to recreate all that short of hosting it to
> >> dump my
> >> code in it?
>
> I'm not saying that. I'm saying that if your xwiki on xwiki.com is
> using the XWiki 1.0 skin (named xwiki10b1 on xwiki.com as it's using
> version 1.0 B3) then you should see the import/export feature
> (provided you're admin of your site - This is where I'm not entirely
> sure. I don't know if you get admin rights on the farm).
>
Go to: http://YOURWIKI.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/edit/XWiki/XWikiPreferences?xpage=editobject
(you can find it in the menu somewhere too as More Options ->Global
Preferences I think)
Select the Skin object and change the skin field to xwiki10b1.

OR, at your choice, just visit:
http://YOURWIKI.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main?skin=xwiki10b1

Regards,
Catalin



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